Divine Scripture, Divine Comedy

“The god of the desert”

I may not have mentioned or implied it, but I’m an atheist.

Or, perhaps more accurately, as YouTube veteran Pat Condell declared, a “fundamental agnostic”.

I honestly don’t know, and I don’t really care to know.  But I’m not arrogant enough to presume to tell you with utmost certainty that there isn’t.  I have better things to do than to emphasize time and again that the burden of proof is on the believer, not vice versa.

This is where atheists get a bad rap; they proclaim with unfettered confidence that there is no God.  They don’t typically waste their breath detailing the lunacy of worshiping Zeus or Apollo or Ra; rather, it is the “god of the desert”; the Abrahamic god that spawned the three dominant and only monotheistic religions that we know today: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.  This is the god that atheists outright deny, for it seems almost redundant and anachronistic to debate the existence of Zeus, Isis, Thor, or Apollo.

Try not to breathe, god my disapprove
Try not to breathe, god my disapprove

The thing is, I don’t feel it’s productive to argue with creationists, orthodox Jews, or fundamentalist Muslims about the existence of god, or what typically reverts to a debate of cosmology/evolution versus creation.  If someone holds a conviction so strong and dear that they look forward to the next life more than their next day, you’re not going to dissuade them through intellectual and logical debate.

And don’t bother mentioning that the first Christian gospels detailing the life of Jesus weren’t written until decades after Christ’s supposed jaunt across the pond, alcoholic alchemy, or resurrection and ascension.  In fact, the only complete forms of the gospels can be dated back, at most, to the 4th century C.E.

And you’d be wasting your breath reminding them that if a man was in fact setting off magnificent fireworks displays of miracles, bringing people back from the dead and curing cancer, someone would have noticed.

But that’s the thing.  No one did.

Not one solitary contemporary scholar in the entire region, from Athens to Rome to Jerusalem and back, ever even heard of the guy.

Well, that’s not entirely true.  They may not have heard about Jesus the man, but they’d heard the story before.

Numerous pagan religions had told a virtually identical tall tale:  a miraculous virgin birth.  It is worth noting that the following pagan gods arrived via virgin stork:  Mithras, Isis, Romulus, Perseus, Danae, Melanippe, and Auge, to name a few.  But it didn’t stop there.  Some of the aforementioned characters also performed miracles.  And walked on water.  And turned water into wine.  And died.  And were resurrected.  And ascended into heaven.

But I digress from my main point.

Genesis states that man was created in god’s image.  The absolute miracle of the human body, in all its perfection, magnificently and intelligently designed by an omnipotent creator.

This is what fundamentalists ram down my throat.  How grateful I should be for being granted the grande honour of occupying this corporeal creation.  But this is where scriptural dogma turns into shameless apologism.

“What about all the evil in the world?” you may ponder.

“What about all the death, destruction, and mayhem?”

“What about the earthquakes, the floods, and the typhoons?”

“What about the murder, the carnage, the genocide?”

Well, they just happen to have an all-encompassing non-answer for you:  “It’s all part of God’s plan,” or my personal favourite, “God works in mysterious ways.”

It’s funny, but for such a perfect manifestation of himself, god has done a pretty shitty job getting the damn gears to stop jamming.  But it’s all a mystery, right?

I don’t think it was too mysterious for my father as the cancer slowly ate him up from the inside, over the course of four torturous years.  I think it was pretty obvious.

I don’t think it was a mystery to him as multitudes of malignant masterpieces were excised from his body, whether through the blessed scalpel or miraculous chemical stew pumped through his veins.

I don’t think it was a mystery to him as he hugged his three year-old daughter for the last time.  There was nothing enigmatic or magnificent or divinely beautiful about that.

“But you can’t have good without evil, light without dark, pleasure without suffering,” they emptily repeat ad nauseam, ad infinitum, ad self-flagellatum.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Don’t go on to tell me how perfect and wonderful we are as god’s creations, yet run for the hills when someone calls bullshit.

I don’t need to suspend disbelief to realize that the god you claim to be your creator, your lord, your saviour, simply does not exist in the conniving,  convoluted and contradictory sense that you simultaneously accept and reject, quote-mining the bible for convenient truths yet ignoring the xenophobia, racism, matricide, patricide, fratricide, homicide, genocide and miscelaneous crimes against humanity – all, mind you, in the name of your almighty.

In conclusion, if you wish to subject yourself to a magazine which has no opt-out period and an automatic subscription renewal upon your mortal expiration, by all means, that is your prerogative.  But please keep your ideas to yourself, out of our schools, out of our politics, and out of our secular society.

I don’t need a vengeful, jealous, arrogant, spiteful, murderous god to tell me where to get my morals from.

Because the “god of the desert” has no place in modern times.  He’s too busy lamenting having not finished off all the Philistine women and children in cities that doubted his legitimacy, thousands of years ago.

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95 Responses to “Divine Scripture, Divine Comedy”

  1. To each his own.

  2. God’s everything. He’s loving and caring and the only reason this world is screwed up is because of our Sin. People screwed up the world. It all started with Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the forbidden tree of knowledge. After that moment Sin entered the world and that’s why bad things happen. God does not cause bad things to happen but Satan does because Sin. God is loving, caring, trustworthy, perfect, and so many more things. Yes He’s also a God of wrath, but that’s only when people disobey Him and use His name in vain. His wrath is poured out over evil not good. God is your Father and Creator as mine even if you don’t believe that. He’s pure truth and though I can’t make you believe that I still will say it. We ALL face God’s judgment…we All stand before Him after death and we all get what we deserve. Just because you’re a good person doesn’t mean you’ll go to Heaven. People wonder why a loving God can send people to Hell, but He clearly warns us in the Bible that Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation and without salvation we cannot enter into Heaven. God forgives even the most terrible sinful messed up people and He does not count anyone out. We ALL have the chance to be saved. Some people say that they’re too old to be saved or even it’s too late but honestly until you’re dead it’s not to late to be saved. Religion gets annoying because the debates and disagreements but knowing God isn’t a religion…knowing God means having a relationship with God. Also being an atheist means you hate God. If you don’t believe there’s a God then you’re agnostic….Atheism is when you believe there’s a God and a Heaven and Hell but you choose to not care about it and you hate God. Just remember even the demons know God exist and they tremble in the mention of His name! I’m not condemning you but instead I want to help you. As a believer it’s my job to lead the world to Christ. It’s tough because some people don’t care but I will still give my all and try. If someone goes to Hell because I didn’t do anything to try to lead them to Christ then I’m burdened because I know it’s my purpose. I really hope you keep an open mind about God but it’s your choice so yeah…..

    • No, sweetie, an atheist is a person who believes there is no god. While some atheists may hate your god or religion in general, the actual word itself means you do not believe in god or heaven or hell. You believe that they do not exist. The closest word for what you describe would, to my knowledge, be a satanist.

      • Okay so maybe I don’t know the exact perfect definition of what an atheist is, but I do know that Jesus is real and I can only try so hard to prove it to people. I will fight with all I have, but I can’t save anyone personally with my own hands. Only God can save people and He can only save those who are willing to trust Him because He gave us free will…a choice. I’ll never give up believing in Him because I’ve seen far too many times His truth and I’ve seen far too many times His work in my life and in others lives that it’s impossible for me to deny Him. My biggest dream is to one day see the whole world shout His name and see His truth, but even the Bible says they’ll always be someone to deny, but in the meantime I’ll still do what I was called to do and share the Gospel and the love of Jesus Christ with the world.

    • God is the biggest lie ever and christians are the worst

      • st.habitat Says:

        God is REAL and FAKE Christians are the worst. I’ll bet you mean’t to say that instead. Pagans suck, No doubt. One Day The World will be filled with faithfully loyal Christians. It’s just too bad that we’ll witness The Wrath Of God in order to believe in him. That’s the number one problem with the world today. Damn we suck. You can’t tell me that everything in the bible is fake, I’ll prove you wrong. 3% of the world loves God so maybe only 3% of the world will be saved like in Noah’s days. Get It. If more people believed in him instead of ignoring him then more than 3% will be saved. Our God says: I am A Jealous God. With that being said, He wants our attention but most of the world seems to be on satan’s side. Satan can’t save himself so how can he save anyone else. Only God has the Power to do so. Love you’re neighbors.

  3. You’ve sure convinced me.

    I especially enjoyed, “Just because you’re a good person doesn’t mean you’ll go to Heaven”, and “People wonder why a loving God can send people to Hell…”

    You’ve answered your own question. He simply does not exist. Certainly not the Abrahamic manifestations, Yahweh, Jehovah, and Allah.

    Instead of praying for my soul, go do something productive, like volunteering at a soup kitchen or something.

    • I don’t give up on people. I’ll pray for you and thousands more for as long as it takes. I stand for God, I worship Him, follow Him and nothing will EVER make me change how I feel about Him. He DOES exist and I will spend the rest of my life fighting for my faith. I’d do anything for Jesus. He saved me from the worst things in my life and without Him I wouldn’t be alive today. He saved me from death and with that I owe Him my life. If my enemy strikes me I turn the other cheek. When I’m struck down I stand back up. I’ll never stop fighting for me beliefs as long as I live on this Earth. I just don’t understand how a person can hear all these things about God and still deny Him. There’s proof He exists and people still turn away…why? I only hope you’ll see He’s real, He’s there, He sees everything everyone does, and He’s standing there with His arms wide open just waiting for you to come to Him.

  4. God equals love, that is all. Katie everything you say is sound, i will pray for this man as well, i do grieve with you over false accusations about God and who he is. I was a crack/heroin addict i lost my cousin to a overdose while getting high with him. I am 26 years old i have a college degree, i have served in the United States Air Force, and have had a very profitable profession. All without a purpose, struggling with unfortunate circumstances of my past i turned to drugs. There are many words for what i became, i was anything but holy. Honestly i thought this whole God thing was a sham, just something for churches to make money off of. I was afraid of the truth, i was fed lies all my life, everybody let me down and never came through for me so how and i going to believe that there is this Holy, Just God that wants to lead me to truth, that wants to be there for me, that wants to love me. I didn’t understand it, and honestly i didn’t believe it. After destroying all my relationships i had no choice. i CHALLENGED God, i demanded that showed himself, and proved his existence. God is one of reconciliation, He showed himself so many ways, I have been clean for 1year 6months through Gods grace.. Today i do interventions on other struggling addicts who NEED the truth, satan is a deceiver. I appreciate you katie and i also pray for the man that wrote this article, and many others that allow satan to deceive the true meaning and purpose of this life. By the way this man is right “Religion: The cancer of humanity” however a relationship with Jesus Christ is the answer to all suffering.

  5. Thank You Ralph for backing me up on this. You’re totally right. People today are so caught up on what religion is right and how they can be better than everyone else that they’re forgetting all about who Jesus was and why He came. They’re forgetting that what matters is not what church they attend or what version of the Bible they read, but instead the relationship they have with God. These very people are giving anyone who follows Christ a bad reputation. So many people see the people that are pure hypocrites and not true on their word and this turns them from any religion. I’m really glad you found God and turned to Him and I’m glad you’ve stayed clean for that long. I never have tried drugs but I don’t plan on it because there’s several drug addicts and alcoholics in my family and seeing them just turned me away from ever wanting to be like that. I’m only 17 years old, but I’ve seen enough in my 17 years to know that God’s real. I’ve only been in church for 2 years and I got saved last year in the summer of 2008. Even for that short amount of time it’s been a major struggle just trying to turn things around. Before I came to Christ I was struggling with depression. I hated life and everything. I began cutting myself and I cried daily. I wanted to die, I wanted to end it all because I saw it as a way out (though it’s not a way out and I know that now). I thought of running away and I thought of suicide often. I questioned my beliefs and I wondered if God was real. I didn’t know as much as I thought I knew about God (which I later found out) but at the time I thought I knew all I needed to know. One night I was sick of it all and I wanted a change; something better in my life. I cried for hours in my room and I fell to the floor and just cried out “God I don’t know if you’re real but if you are help me change…I can’t do this anymore…” and that’s all I said. I then began trying to learn more about God and figure out if He existed. This was in December of 2007 and in February 2008 for the first time since I was a little kid I went to church with a friend. It changed my life. When I got there I didn’t know anybody so I felt like I didn’t want to be there, but the words my youth pastor spoke…God was speaking through him because everything He said was exactly what I needed to hear that night. I went back several times and that summer (4 months later) I went to a christian summer camp with my church. That changed my life tremendously. The day I got back I got saved and from there to now I’ve laid my life down and I’m doing what I can to live for God. Yeah I screw things up sometimes and I make mistakes but now I’m stronger because He makes me stronger. It’s easier to stand up when I fall now and it’s all because of God. Also I’ve discovered I have a talent for writing songs and poetry and when I write it’s all about giving praise and glory to God and it’s like He gives me the words to say and it just pours out onto a page…all my thoughts, feelings, everything. God’s truly amazing and I’ve seen things happen all around me that could only have came from God. I only hope one day I can do something bold and meaningful in the world that people won’t remember my name for but instead remember God’s name for. I want Him to have all the glory. If my band gets somewhere I hope to share His truth through our songs.

    • May God continue to bless you Katie, you are one of the strongest 17 yr. olds i’ve ever came across thru words:)….prayer is powerful keep on praying….

      and to the original poster i hope you continue to search for evidence as to why God is who He saids He is, as much as you do to why you say He isn’t…

      • Thanks. God’s truly rescued me from some major stuff. If it wasn’t for Him saving my life I would be dead. I thought about suicide 3 years ago before I met God and now looking back I haven’t believed in Him long, but even in such a short time He’s totally changed my life around. So many people against God tell me I’m brainwashed into believing, but that’s not true. We all have a choice and I actually searched for God on my own. No one ever told me to seek God our and I’d find Him. After going through all that depression one night I actually heard a voice speak to me and I didn’t know what it was. I went to church one day from my own will and I went back week after week on my own. No one forced me. When you seek out God on your own and not listen to others trying to keep you from seeking Him you will find Him.

    • God is real, Katie dont worry if these people dont wanna listen to us. Cause we all know where there going to go when Jesus comes. I cant wait till that day. But yeah if they dont wanna listen to us then theirs nothing we can do, because they gotta make the decision if they wanna believe or not. Trust me your not the only christian, i’ll fight with you. And also if God or Christ isnt real then how come Christianity is the most known religion, and why is the percentage of christian the highest in the world??

      • Wow, such incredibly convincing arguments!

        It’s a wonder you ever graduated from high school, with your post riddled with spelling, grammar and syntax mistakes. Learn the difference between “there, their, and they’re” – you’ll seem like far less of a moron.

        “We all know where there going to go when Jesus comes.” What a great reason to believe in God. “Believe or you’re going to Hell!” That’s called blackmail. There is nothing loving or merciful about it. Your God is a tyrant and a sadist.

        “…they gotta make the decision if they wanna believe or not.” Yeah, the same way I choose to believe in gravity. Fortunately, there is overwhelming evidence for gravity and I don’t make insane attempts at leaping off tall buildings to prove my faith in it.

        “If God or Christ isnt real then how come Christianity is the most known religion, and why is the percentage of christian the highest in the world??” This is by far your most ludicrous argument. Nitrogen is the most prevalent element in the atmosphere, and oxygen is significantly less; does that mean my body needs nitrogen the most? The majority of the earth is covered in salt water; does that mean we need it to survive? 97% of the Universe is composed of Dark Matter and Dark Energy; does that mean we are too?

        Just because something is abundant, doesn’t mean it’s any more valid or relevant to survival or of significance. Incidentally, Dark Energy IS quite significant, but it has nothing to do with my day-to-day life.

        You and the sheep in your flock are making a positive claim for “God”‘s existence. Positive claims require positive proof. I can dismiss your claims out of hand when you provide absolutely ZERO evidence.

        Go read a book other than the bible, maybe you’ll learn something.

  6. hey plus i belive in god and no one can disprove that he exists their are alot of ppl who say hey we found dark matter particals and my responce to things like that, god wanted a big bang to start everything, or hey we evolved from mamals, well maby god wanted us to so this doesnt have much to do with what you talking about but all im saying is untill i see phisicall evedince that disproves god im beliving in him because i know hes there, if u dont belive he is there all i can do is pray for uand hope you find god and acsept him in you life.

  7. I tend to agree with a great deal of what you’ve said, and i think this is a nice essay, but I think you could make it even stronger by expanding on some of your points. If you’d like to read some interesting literature on the sociological and cultural problems of religion, I’d suggest reading Dawkins’s The God Delusion or Hitchens’s God is Not Great. Both focus heavily on the problem of religious belief in an age of nuclear weapons and how it is a detriment to all societies.

  8. sir i’ll keep it very simple…being that God’s Word is so simple that it’ll take another human being to help you get confused…

    but i understand why your angry and confused, you have that right its your choice…but the only way you can be confused is if He’s misunderstood…

    very simple as you stated though: there is an opposite to everything right? light & dark….good & evil…etc. etc.

    so now you have God, and his adversary which you fail’d to mention which is satan…

    all those horrific things you spoke about are from the enemy (satan) not God…all good comes from God, all bad comes from satan its really that simple…

    one reason why you’d automatically think that all these terrible things come from Him is because you have a demon that whispers these lies in your ear at the right time, which will cause you to believe anything….

    if you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything….

    lemme ask you…if you have kids, would you purposely put your kids in a car-crash?…would you purposely give your kids cancer…would you flat-out purposely bring any harm to your children?…if your a loving parent the answer is “NO’….

    so why would a loving God who’s concept of love is beyond our understanding, purposely put us in the way of danger?

    again all good things come from God, all bad comes from His adversary its really that simple…

    another question they may pop into mind for you is why would He allow all of this to happen right?….2 words sir…free will…

    He said that His people would perish from lack of vision, or lack of knowledge…a lack of knowledge is basically “not knowing”….

    its like this: if your driving down a road, and all the “signs” are telling you, that “danger is up ahead” who’s fault is it if you continue driving down that road?…yours or Gods?….

    He gave you something that His own angels don’t even possess: a choice
    free will….and He doesn’t interfer with that choice, good or bad, other than that it wouldn’t be “free will” right?….

    I really do understand why you feel the way you do, trust me…i honestly wish i could sit down with you and just talk about life over a cup of coffee, and this is me honestly speaking…but being that we are on the opposite sides of this computer screen, i hope that i have said something, or can say something that will provoke you to re-think whats really going on out here…

    satan is here on this earth to do nothing but: kill – steal – and destroy…
    nothing more!…he’s an old devil that has being down this for milleniums…

    i say this then i’ll depart:

    its better to accept Jesus now and die, and find out He wasn’t real, than to reject Him and die and find out that He is….for by that time it will be too late….what do you have to lose by accepting Him now while you have the chance?….

    you don’t have to be a Christian to have a relationship with Jesus my friend, Jesus wasn’t a Christian, nor was any other denomination…He spoke to people as they were, as you eluded to that Christianity came about after He ascended, Christian was started by one of His disciples, Paul….since you doubt who He is, just try this while you alone, and no ones around but you and Him…

    ask Him to reveal Himself to you…ask Him to show you who He is….
    if you do that out of sincerity, i promise you this:

    He will….

    sincerely

    a friend

    • Wow, good thing we have Satan around as a scapegoat to brush aside and dismiss all those horrible things in the world.

      It’s so bizarre how an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent creator would manufacture an entity that would do nothing but challenge his authority in the kingdom of heaven, and harass and terrorize all of god’s children on earth. It’s so beautiful how great god is!

      “Its better to accept Jesus now and die, and find out He wasn’t real, than to reject Him and die and find out that He is…”

      Good ol’ Pascal’s Wager. Thank you for reminding me the extreme tunnel vision and narrow mindedness of the typical creationist.

      A god that demands worship and eternal loyalty – regardless if at gunpoint, which you suggest by saying it will be “too late” if I don’t accept Jesus by my mortal (and only) departure – is no god worth acknowledging, let alone admiring, respecting, or worshiping.

      Your god is a tyrant. A terrorist. A sadist.

      Let me ask you this: if you saw “God”, once, just one time, taking a batch of people that had just died, say 1000 or so, and shoving them into the pits of hell, to roast and rot and ruin for eternity, how could you possibly say that he is all loving and all good? A “God” who tortures people on an infinite time scale is nothing more than a 4 year old boy burning ants with a magnifying glass. At least the boy doesn’t expect the ants to pray to him.

      Open your eyes, live your life. We only get one. The God you speak of is a god of death, misery, and destruction.

      I think I’ll live my life without god, give to charity, love my family, help my friends, and just generally be a good person. Because I’d sooner get my morals from your supposed Satan than from your alleged God.

  9. lol….they say the greatest trick the devil pulled is convincing the world that he didn’t exist…and the greatest trick on top of that is that God is a myth to athiest…

    sir i wouldn’t categorize you anywhere…i’d just say that you don’t believe…my guess would be that you beleive only what you can “see” with your physical eyes right?…

    i really don’t think that you don’t believe in God…there is a multitude of facts that point to Him being real…

    so i challenge you on this…what do you believe?…where do you suppose we came from?…can you honestly say, that we evolved from apes? if so, how?…and why aren’t they still evolving into humans?…

    you say God tortures His children?…how?…have you not read any of the scriptures?…what does FREE WILL mean to you?…the option to “choose”…im sure you don’t realize if you only believe what you can “physically” see…
    but there is a war waging over ever decision you make…
    you can’t “physically” see it, you would need faith, and knowledge of this
    to know what i mean…

    just think…have you ever thought of a great idea…and then all the sudden it turn’d to a bad idea, or thought?…just in your thoughts?…there are many things that happen everyday to influence your decisions…and if your not standing on some type of knowledge to make the right ones, then abuse is inevitable…

    you say why would God create a angel (Lucifer) that would challenge His authority…i don’t have all the answers but i know this…angels had choices too…Lucifer made his…he wanted equal billing, to be a “head” and anything w/ 2 heads is a monster…he was cast down to the earth…

    BUT…

    Adam had the chance to hush satan forever!…right in the beginning…in the book of Genesis…God said: be fruitful and multiple yourself on the earth (im paraphrasing)….and “SUBDUE IT”…(parapharasing again)…do you know what subdue means?…SNAKE COMMMINNNG!!…
    God said that satan was cast out of heaven onto the earth…He told Adam to subdue him…Adam didn’t listen…therefore we have sin, and life as we know it now…

    i know, i know it was said that Eve bit the fruit right?…and talk’d her husband into it?…not true…Adam was right there beside her, and he watch’d her get persauded rather than take control and subdue…

    sir you can choose not to believe…im not here to make you a believer, this is just a seed being sow in your mind…so as long as you can “physically” see these words…then i believe you’ll be ok…God has a plan for you also…im sure this may be contrary to your belief…

    im sure you’ve been thru alot of pain…but God loves you still, even if you hate Him He still loves you…you just tie His hands when you don’t allow Him to help you in life…

    do you understand sir…what it really means to be “free”…what it really means to have “free will”…something you truely can call your very own?…your “choice” is yours!…God doesn’t interfer with that…tho He does put the “right” things in your path to bring you closer to Him…just as satan will do ANYTHING! to keep you from him…either way its your “choice”…neither God nor satan can “make” you do anything…its your “choice”…<—that is the very essence of freedom…

    i don't know what lie satan has whispered to your mind sir….but you can do something very simple on your own time…you don't have to talk to anyone…the only courage you have to have is to tell God to reveal Himself to you…

    you say you don't believe God is who He is, then just say that to Him!…
    say "I don't believe You are who You say You are!…I want You to show me, that You are who You say You are!

    He'll do it…now i won't go as far to say that He "physically" allow you to see Him…lol..but He'll interact in a way that you'll be lead closer to Him..lil by lil..

    and sir…i can sense you have a kind heart…i don't think your a bad person at all…and i truely respect your opinion…but this world is going in a very hectic direction to say the least…

    things are happening very rapidly….make the right decision…
    i'll pray for you…rather if you want me to or not…

  10. just to answer to some of your other comments in the previous post…

    – personally I think Pascal’s Wager has no risk…with that what do you have to lose?…

    – and you say people use satan as a scapegoat? if you only knew…
    sir, your obviously in need of more understanding…my understanding of good and bad is solidified…there is no middle ground…

    its either black or white…i wonder why people blame God and continue to do so, for man-made mistakes and choices…again it was stated that people would perish from a lack of knowledge, and nothing else…

    as far as the earthquakes, and “natural” disasters, well i’ll say this much,
    if man can learn to perdict the weather in good accuracy, he can also learn to control it…to a certain degree of accuracy…think what u want, but thats all i’ll say on that…

    why would you rather use God as a scapegoat, and blame all of this horror on him, than satan?…again i really think you have to understand who your dealing with….you in search of answers, of that i am certain…
    you will only get second-hand information on this site…believer or non-believer…if you really want to know the truth, keep find, and keep seeking…they finding is reserved for only those that are seeking…

    so i’ll say keep seeking out truth sir…its a long mission, so you’ll have
    your hands full…or do you desire to just “live your life?”….believe it or not, but im wrong if i dont’ say it…but “living your life”…without Gods Light…is living in darkness…”broad and wide is the road to darkness”…but narrow and difficult is the road to righteousness and truth…its easy to blame God sir…just as its easy for a believer to blame satan…

    remember its always black or white…either way your influenced good or bad, when it comes down to it…your “choice” is your “choice”…

    make a good one…

  11. sorry for all the typo’s lol…

    “your” in search of answers…
    keep “finding”
    they “say” that finding is reserved for only those that are seekers…

  12. A simple vessel Says:

    Hi:

    I watched a movie this evening called Dante’s Inferno, this movie is based upon the poem the Divine Comedy, written by Dante Alighieri between 1308 and his death in 1321. He had a vision of Hell, Purgatory and Paradise. I do a lot of research on this topic as I like to keep my self informed regarding my Christian beliefs. as I have done my research I have found it most intriguing how no matter the topic it has always lead me back to Jesus Christ or something that has to do with God, Creation, Satan and the beliefs of the there after. for example I was doing some research on a topic known a Wuxia (ancient Chinese) which has turned into a Asian art form and basicly tells stories about Chaina history and the characters have martial arts skills, my point is this that in my readings it lead me to finding out different beliefs ancient and new regarding God, who he is and who we are as humans and our place in His creation. Honestly we do not have the answers for this puzzle. However, if Jesus did not exist then how is that then one man who did not exist have such a powerful influence on everything from literature, music, to art, and even over this topic this very night that I write this, If God (Jesus) does not exist then we would not be having this debate. The very fact that we are proves that He does exist. Think about this for a second you do not talk or ponder or debate about things that do not exist, simply because they do not therefore you do not know anything about them, therefore they would not cross the synapses of human thought. Logical right. if you do your research (being that you are an intelligent being – clearly pointed out in your argument that sparked this debate) you owe it to your self to do your research and stop blindly believing in the myth that there is no God, The fact remains there is a God and he is real, if he were not we would not be having this discussion. right. logic dictates that unless the thought leads to conclusion then the thought is meaningless and unproductive and therefore the mind would not think on such things. the fact that we are thinking on one such as God also proves that in our logical thought that he must exist, if this were not the case we would not think about Him, by the way the fact that you are debating this actually proves that there is a God. You see you say that it is the believer that needs to prove the existence of God, but why? we already know. It is the atheist that needs to disprove the existence of Him. Believe what you choose to believe but I must warn you of the dangers that lye ahead. simply put God sends no man to hell man chooses his own fate, man chooses to go to hell, in fact God can not and will not go against your free will, so if that is where you want to go that is your choice. I know this may sound somewhat a little strange, however I have seen hell and it is a real place, it is a cold and dark lonely, somber, compassionless, unsympathetic, and an evil place nothing of what we see in the world as far as atrocities are concerned are in caparison to hell. It is destitution and abandonment, it is your worst nightmare 1,000,000 times real. It is the absence of all truth and light. the lamentations from hell are constantly vociferous and more blood curdling than that of rabid dog searching for it’s next victim, more awful and more terrifying than your deepest fear. It is an insatiable hunger and consumption of darkness itself. The calignosity of hell is more darker than the crepuscular of night. there is a weeping and knashing of teeth that is more real than the atom and it’s electrons. In all honest though these words do not compare or even yet to really describe what I have experienced, these words lack in true definition and reality of hell, why else would it be called such, simple put because that is the closest word to describe what that place really is HELL. I am not saying this to scare you into believing but rather telling you what would await you if you choose to deny the existence of a loving, compassionate God (father) that we believers have come to know quite intimately I might add. On the other hand Heaven is exactly the opposite of hell, I will say that in it’s essence God Himself, in one word Love. If you have ever had the privilege of such an experience as love (as I am sure you have) it is only because God exists, if you have ever had compassion for another it is only because God exists, if you have ever felt someon elses pain or hurts it is only because God exists. we as a human race have morals because God exists, not because we choose to have them, they are written in our DNA, our very essence is in the image of God and again proves he does exists. I could go on and on, but i think you can draw your own conclusion on what I am saying. if you want to deny the truth that is fine, but remember this truth does not need to be prove but rather disproved. I am not trying to convince you either way I am simply just letting you know the facts that are around you, with each breathe you take it is only because He made it and you so. choice is yours. By the way you are angry at God, I would even say you hate him, I mean if he did not exist why then do you loathe him so. Maybe he took something from you that you thought was yours but it was not. Remember here that he is God the creator of all things that were, is and yet to be in the universe and he can do as he pleases. if that makes god a tyrant, or a child throwing a temper tantrum, than I think that you ideas of who he truly is needs to change. Remember what I said that I do research, I must tell you what lead me to believe is that I set out to disprove the existence of God and found that He does. I too at one time doubted and did not believe in God, but on my journey in trying to disprove his existence I have found again that He is reality itself. tell you what you want proof that he exists try to live at least one week anti-Christ meaning doing the most worst you can think of. Right. if after that week you do not kill your self someone else will. chances are that idea to you is probably ridiculous right, after all you want to live your life and be a good person, well the fact that you want to be a good person proves that God exists, think about this for a moment those who have committed the greatest atrocities in our society in all history have done these things simply because they were anti-Christ or anti-God. Hitler, Josef Stalin, Vladimir Lenin, Vladimir Lenin,these three killed countless people all in the name of communism Cain, terrorists, Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia a.k.a Vlad III the Impaler, who killed people out of boredom. As far as the crusades are concerned it was in the name of the church and they hid behind God. Again apparently the same with 911. it was for the spread of there religion masking as Allah. What I am saying here is that you cannot blame what man has done in the last 6,000 years on God and say that He did a bad job at his creation. There is sin in the world, have you ever lied or stole something? that is sin, is that God’s fault or your own. blaming God for all this happening in the world is mans or your attempt to not take the blunt or the sting (responsibility) of your or our own choices and actions. It is easier to blame a God that does not exist right, then you can be absolved of your sin, right. wrong. you can not look at what man has done and think that that is who and what God is or has done, will do or is doing, that is a grave error in judgment and with all due respect your concept of God is clearly and sorrowfully wrong. honestly if you would open your eyes and your heart to Him, you will find out quite the opposite of what you think to be real. A paradigm shift if you will. So instead of trying to say to us believers that we need to prove to you that God exists in order for you to believe in Him, why not seek for your self, you are the one that needs to find out for your self, I or no one can show you this. we do believe and we do because we were shown, but we also asked to be shown, in my journey I could not prove that He did not exist therefore the only conclusion is that He does. this you must find out, it is a matter of life and death, and I mean literally. your choice. in closing I will say this. again that for someone who does not apparently exist or ever to have existed He sure has made quite the impact on us, no man in all of history has had such and impact, even those from the greatest of thinkers and leaders in the world. lastly the accounts of Jesus life were recorded within 4 years of his resurrection and Paul’s account was written within 5 yrs. also at the time the only people who could record such things were the scribes as they were the ones educated enough to do so, the written word that we know it today did not become available to the common man until after the Gutenberg printing press of 1811, before then only those educated in the written word could read of write. afterwords though the written word went into mass production which allowed the common folk to get there hands on learning and literacy. point is this that those who were charged with the task of a scribe was raised to do this from about age 7 or so, and it was there life, they were very stringent about what they recorded, they could not make up anything as this would be death for them. so the fact that His life was recorded again proves that he did in fact exist. also the Bible has been around for approximately 5,000 yrs. which started in the desert. so the word started in the desert and then when in to mass production and gave us literacy all based on the Bible and all based upon a God that does not exist, hmmm. makes you wonder. facts are facts my friend they are there you just need to look and you will see them. Lastly look up the word “word” in the dictionary, the findings are quite remarkable. I have a New Websters Dictionary it states that the definition for word is “an articulate sound expressing an idea”. “And God said”… Genisis 1:3 in other words he used words to create everything. I hope and prey you will find your way.

  13. sigh. This isn’t my place to correct you, It’s your soul you’re damaging.

  14. I think the Roman soldiers sure noticed Him.

  15. I love God, but I hate religion. God hates religion as well.

    BTW: in case you don’t know, God’s not mad anymore, in fact He’s in a good mood. He is crazy about you atheists too, He just wishes you weren’t so stubborn.

  16. Gods Love from the very beginning; Free Will to do as we please–look what has happened. I thank God for the opportunity to find him and choose good over evil.

    And for non-believers, no words can express what we know to be true. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

    Remember to look around at the perfections in this world and beyond. understand that nothing can create something from nothing.

  17. Agnostic Says:

    Wow the xtians are coming out of the wood work. With their typical Zoastrian dualitys of good and evil. Using the toking statements about “free will” and blaming the ills of the world on a plagerized sumarian myth with talking snakes. What God Do you all worship Jesus, Yeawea, EL? How are you sure your god is the right one what if Allah is the true god and the muslims are right. Man then you will be in big trouble better get yourself a Koran. What if if the Gnostics had it right and your worshiping a false religion……….do you even know what Gnosticism is? Oh yeah you guys don’t read anything that isn’t aproaved by your church because learning and criticall thinking obviously comes from Satan aka Pan and the synthesis of other pagan gods.
    When relgion was in power humanity was in the Dark Ages.
    If the bible is such a good book and your god is love then why does it condone slavery, Genocide, Infanticide(Thats right pro lifers Infanticide!)
    sexism, animal sacrifice & human sacrifice( Your weird god certainly had somthing about burnt offering) Go read your good Book and not just the nice parts and ask your self can this being really be the creator of anyhting but death and war?

    Ask yourself this how can a being that is apparently omnipitent get angry? Anger is an emotion that stems from fear a reaction to being threatened that causes an agresive or angry response If god is angry that god is also afraid or threatned by something how can a being that is afraid be considered omnipitent or omnicient? This is just an a little thought exercise.
    Here is another one If an all powerful omnicient being decides that It will create a planet in one obscure corner of the milky way amongst billions of stars and plop down some humans on it in some garded with a Mystical tree with a bad fruit(By the way there are no apples in the middle east so it could not have been an apple) And this all powerful being says don’t touch the fruit yet the beings it created eat fruit anyway because some magic snake tells them too. How could this Being be angry with the people it created if it was really omnicient it would know what the outcome was even before it created the first people unless it is incapable of seeing the future which means it isn’t omnipotent. How come this being screws up its creation by creating something that is so easily fooled and where talking right from the get go not even a thousand years down the road. It would be sadistic to punish them if you knew they were going to skrew up.
    Last why does an omnipitent being need praise and worship thats pretty egotistical if you ask me.

    • Someone who obviously disagree's with you. Says:

      Ok, first off, the bible does not condone slavery, genocide, sexism, Infanticide, or human sacrifice. If it does, i encourage you to find the verse were.

      Secondly. just because “religion” was in power in the dark ages, doesn’t mean anything. If someone does something in the name of God it doesn’t mean Gods really backing them up. Or, that what their doing is Godly. Infact, often enough, its quite the opposite. as for God being angry, ask yourself this. If you spoke man into life, made him in your own image, and set him in paradise were he could be with you everyday, how would you feel, when he broke the only rule you made? Adam and eve could do ANYTHING they had the entire garden of eden to live in, and to do with as they pleased. but they disobeyed God, breaking his only rule. oh, and they were tricked by another one of Gods creations that disobeyed him, Satan. So, if your enemy, helped your creations disobey you, letting sin in the world, which would cause them to die, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? When your people are being slaughtered, or enslaved, how would you feel? When your people disobey you, how would you feel? Its called anger. Also, God is Omnipotent, so why on earth do you expect him to have the same emotions scale? WE might get angry because of fear, who’s to say God does? what would God fear? (hint: nothing)
      Back to the Garden of Eden. how could he be angry? so, just because you know that something is going to happen, your supposed to be okay with it? If you know a children’s hospital is going to be blown up in ten seconds, your supposed to be okay with it? NO! well why not? I mean you know its gonna happen, so that should make your anger go away. (according to your argument) A teacher knows a student is going to get an F on the test. Low and behold, they do. does that mean the student doesn’t deserve the F? The teacher gave the student every opportunity to pass, but the STUDENT chose not to pay attention. they deserve the F. We deserve to be punished. everyday when we sin, we throw all of Gods love back in his face.
      About the worship. Well, as far as DEMANDING it, i don’t know. If you really sit back and think about all God has done for humanity, after all humanity has done to God, its a wonder we’re not flat on our faces praising him 24/7. Most of us believers are pretty content to worship God on our own free will.

    • There is only one true God. One creator. Religions are many but only one God don’t confuse yourself. In order for us to understand what God’s plan was back in the days of creation and his selected race you’d have to be God, but, I’ll give you the highlights the stories of the bible show two things not matter who you are you’re never going to be able to please God you’re not able and if you truly believe in Him and have faith he has made a way for you to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and if you want to know what love is His example is the only one and He has never turned His back on the human race. One day when you want to know how or why you are on this earth and what it’s all about you might want to read a Bible and figure it out. (hopefully not on your own) as for the rest of your post what a load of hogwash which has no basis or proof go get a clue obviously you have 0 knowledge of the bible and are trying to attribute earthly things to a God.

      I pray that you’ll find God a God who wants a relationship with you One who has been there and sufferred more than you will or have ever.

      God is Almighty

  18. I don’t think it’s the belief in God or religion. It’s the people or human beings who hijack God or whatever religion and twist it for their own purpose or soil it by their behavior. Be it Jim Jones, David Korash or OBL. They are corrupted & corrupt religion.

    Truth is — nobody knows for sure. Either you believe or not. Somebody is right but nobody’s come back from the grave to say who is correct.

    • By your submission you don’t believe in the Bible. Strange how people a thousand years from now might still believe Einstein’s (the madman) theories yet many want to contest The Holy Bible.

      • Dear Paul,

        Thank you for your several replies to posts.

        I was actually going to take the time to reply to each one, and explain how there is no evidence that the bible is the word of god, how it’s been written by man, the story of adam and eve is a parable etc.

        However, after reading that you call Einstein a “madman”, and outright dismissing him as one of the greatest scientists who ever lived, I likewise am dismissing you as a troll.

        I’m not a censor. I always let the religious drivel on this board through, unless it’s just blatant quoting from scripture (I’d rather not waste wordpress’ bandwidth). Anyhow, I’ve summarily decided that you’re a troll, and will hereby be monitoring your future contributions to what was supposed to be an intelligent discourse.

        As a troll, you’ve forfeited your privileges.

        Spam another message board with your anti-science rhetoric.

      • His peers did not agree with many of his theories even though they were prooved wrong. Einstein made some affirmations as to God as well you should look it up. You did not understand what I was saying though, for your mind is closed. All your posts are those of a troll which has nothing other to say than to argue without factual basis, and, to insult others in order to bolster yourself.

        God is Almighty

      • Ok, wow. You really need to finish high school. Please, dude, don’t drop out.

        Read the following carefully: EINSTEIN WAS NOT A THEIST. At best he was a pantheist, but HE DID NOT BELIEVE IN A PERSONAL GOD. The quote mining done by creationists attempt to portray Einstein as being a theist, but he had stated that they are categorical lies. “I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.” YOU should look it up. Quote mining is intellectual dishonesty at its nadir.

        And so what if a theory is proven wrong? That’s what science is. New theories replace old theories as new evidence is presented and new technological advancements occur.

        It is the pinnacle of irony that you say my mind is closed, when you casually dismiss the scientific method – while saying that I argue without factual basis!

        You are the one who is making claims without ANY factual basis WHATSOEVER. How do you not see that? Are you truly that diluted?

        Seriously man, prove why god exists without citing the bible. Show me evidence. I hereby declare my mind COMPLETELY OPEN to any evidence you wish to present for the existence of god. I beg of you, prove me wrong, show me why subscription to the scientific method and naturalism is me arguing “without factual basis”.

  19. Man you guys sure get amp-ed up about something you don’t believe in. I don’t believe in the easter bunny, but I ain’t gonna waste a second of my time trying to convince you not to. You don’t sound like an atheist to me, you sound like a God-hater. You writing is filled with hate for a God you refuse to look at face to face. You accuse Christians of being selective in the texts they take from the Bible: right back at you! It seems you mine the Bible for anything that lets you point your dagger at God, and you completely misrepresent him.
    You also accuse the Christians of trotting out the same old stuff about God, while ignoring the gory details. Right back at you again: you point out the gory details and ignore anything that doesn’t feed your anger toward God.

    If God has slaughtered nations in the past, what does it tell you about God? Yeah, you can say he’s all those rotten things, but you’re missing the point. He’s a God to whom our sin is such an affront: such a vile, detestable, intolerable slur against his Holiness. I think he’s made it clear since the beginning that sin will never go unpunished.

    By the way: do you punish your kids for disobedience? Imagine if people ignored all the great and wonderful things you do, and formed their opinion of you through that one thing – that you’re a hate-filled tyrant because you punish those who disobey you.

    And on my reading, God doesn’t send anyone to those fires of damnation. If you know the consequences of an action, and you choose to do that action, aren’t you also choosing the consequences?

    You can focus on the fires of hell and call him an evil tyrant. But that means you have to ignore the fact that he provides the get-out-of-jail free card that you can avail yourself of at any time. And he provides it at his own personal cost: he chose to do your time in the furnace for you. He doesn’t send anyone to hell: people earn their own passage, and refuse his offer.

    A god of hate might send people to hell. A God of love would offer a free ride passed, but he’d never force you to take it. And a God of love gives you the choice which ride to take.

    How come you can write as if you know stuff about the Bible and the Christian Faith and God, but you’ve completely missed that? Or ignored it.

    My strong suspicion is that anyone putting this much energy into arguing about God, including Dawkins and Hitchens and all the other god-haters, is secretly hoping against hope that someone will deliver the final unchallengable proof for God, to settle that crying deep inside. The proof is there, but you have to take your blinkers off.

    Thanks for the blog. It’s healthy to search and debate, but it’s pointless if we come with a closed mind. Most bloggers on the (anti) God issue don’t come open-minded: they just like a forum for their hate. You can taste it in their language. Can we keep the engagement going, but can we drop the anger and hate language?

    • God bless you Doug excellent perspective. Thank You I was going nuts with all this rubbish.

    • Sorry Doug.

      Logic fail.

      No all-loving god, no matter what, would ever let any of his creations go to hell. It’s antithetical to your defined terms.

      And no, you’ve clearly missed the point, since I’m not out to prove god’s nonexistence – I can’t prove a negative.

      I’m here to voice my opinion that I reject your claims to god (it’s silly and ridiculous that when anyone asks you if you believe in Zeus or Ra, you so “of course not”, but when they apply that line of reasoning to your God, you dismiss it).

      No, he does not spend any time “in the furnace” for me. He sits on a cloud and heaven, judging.

      I believe in my senses, in rationality, and reason, in logic. I’m sorry, but it’s COMPLETELY irrational that a supposedly ALL-LOVING being would commit a person to INFINITE TORTURE for FINITE transgressions.

      LOGIC. FAIL.

  20. Hi – I am a spiritual person but I don’t believe in any religion… May I use your picture in an anti-war powerpoint presentation… – The words that would go with the pic are “blame it on some diety -commanding most conveniently – a “holy” war requiring for you to kill the “Enemy”

    Regards

    Claire

  21. mike clements Says:

    If you want to know why there is evil in the world its not because of God. lookup john 10:10. The devil comes but to steal kill and destroy. stop blaming God!

  22. God, help me get off heroin and stay off!!

    • 2 fold go to your nearest church and ask them for two things where to find a place to get cleaned up and then the directions back to God. You need to find out why you’re doing drugs what are you trying to forget or whatever the reason. May God bless you and may he help you strip away this addiction, my He surround you with His love. May you find His light shine through in this dark place. Turn away from the darkness and look toward Him He is the light of the world He is the truth, He is the way. Trust in Him for He won’t let you down and remember always.

      God is Almighty

    • One more thing He has plans for you if nothing else at least to help others look to the future not the past don’t be a “addict” be one of His children.

      God is Almighty

  23. He will if you want. But he’s like a potter. He can only work with clay that’s in his hands. You have to give him your life if you want him to do anything with it. He doesn’t wave magic wands from afar. Good luck 888!

  24. Many interesting comments here. I must start off by saying I relate most to the original poster. While I’m not an atheist, I am not convinced such a GOD truly exists. I don’t understand why I just have to have “faith” and pray and obey and believe in something I can’t see, hear, touch, or speak to. It makes no sense to me why religion has been the forefront of debate and wars since the beginning of time. There are so many religions that believe in so many different GODS. So who’s right and who’s wrong? How can anyone be so damn certain there is… when I ask people, all I get is- “GOD has helped me in my life” or something to that effect. Nobody I know has ever seen HIM, yet they’re so certain HE exists.

    I hope GOD does exist… who wouldn’t? Who wants to worship Satan- Not me!

    But until it can be confirmed and proved, GOD is no more than a myth to me… like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

    If this makes me a bad person- simply because I have doubt and questions- then send me to hell. If GOD loves me, why doesn’t he show himself, why doesn’t he prevent good people from suffering. Why is it when something good happens it’s a miracle, but when something bad happens, it’s unfortunate or the devil at work.

    If you’ve found GOD- more power to you… but don’t sit on your high horse and try to tell everyone your beliefs are in fact 100% factual, just because you’ve been brainwashed to believe so or because something in your life happened and so GOD must be real. The truth is- no one knows anything for sure. The bible was written by man but supposively inspired by GOD.

    Why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the bible? We know they existed though right? Why… because dinosaurs existed before man.

    I just find it strange how so many people are so convinced GOD exists. And he will forgive all our sins if we just believe in him and pray and obey him. You can go kill 10 people and GOD will forgive you, yet if you don’t believe in him, it’s straight to hell for you???

    I don’t have all the answers but come on- the whole premise of why sin existed to begin with- Adam & Eve,,, the forbidden fruit- it sounds a little far fetched to me…. really, think about it. Because Eve (of course it would be the woman who ate it first) took a bite of the forbidden fruit and convinced Adam to do so, therefore now we all must die?????

    Doesn’t anyone else think this sounds a bit extreme? It sounds like some folk tale …. like Little Red Riding Hood or Hansel and Gretel. It just seems to me GOD could have came up with a better reason for the fact that we all must someday die!!

  25. Great post, Stacey. No, it doesn’t make you a bad person, and no it’s not extreme. It’s pretty common, actually. So many people would love to find something to ‘hang their hat on,’ but struggle to get passed the doubts. There’s a saying; “To truly believe one must begin by doubting.” It’s OK to doubt, even helpful, as long as it motivates you to dig deeper, until hopefully you hit solid rock; something substantial you can build on. Of course you have to come with an honest open-ness to the truth, whether you like what that is or not.
    You sound like someone who’d desperately love to find something of substance. At times you write with just such an honest openness, and then you close right up with even a touch of hostility in accusing people who believe of being ‘brainwashed.’ Is there a little envy in there, that they’ve found something that you haven’t?
    Sorry if quoting the Bible bugs you, but it really speaks to your situation: “You will seek me, and you will find me, when you seek me with your whole heart. I will be found by you, says the Lord.” (Jeremiah 29:13)
    Why do so many people seek something meaningful in knowing God? Why has every culture ever known or existed had an instinct to worship?
    “He has set eternity in the human heart.” (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
    We know we are made for an eternal destiny, it’s set in our make-up. No wonder you have an urge to find something.
    “If God loves me why doesn’t he show himself?” Did you miss the most defining event in human history a little over 2000 years ago? What do you celebrate at Christmas time?
    Good on you for asking just about all the classic questions/objections.
    Yes, dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible, they’re just not called by that name, since the term wasn’t invented until somewhere in the 1800’s I think.
    Yes, God could stop all good people from suffering, but he’d have to take away human free-will to do it. Ever had a car accident that wasn’t your fault? That was because someone excercised their free will to be careless, reckless, wicked or even just plain dumb. Sometimes one person’s free will will interfere with the free will of another. Must God intervene everytime that’s about to happen? That means taking away free will. We’d just be robots.
    As to all the different religions, we’ve seen even in our own lifetime people rise up and claim divinity and draw a following (Waco, Jonestown, heaven’s gate, etc) It’s a simple thing to check out what claims they make and see if there’s evidence to substantiate them. But do the same with Jesus Christ – you just might be surprised how much evidence there is: if you’re willing to be objective.
    Try not to get caught up in simplistic misrepresentations: (You can kill 10 people and God will forgive you.) That in itself is not a tenet of the Christian faith.
    Keep up the search, keep up the passion. But you’re right to guard it against charlatans. Demand evidence, because there are answers out there. You haven’t asked a question that hasn’t been asked (and answered) a thousand times. But don’t deny others their experiences they’ve had of God. Good luck.

  26. im in total agreement with “a simple vessel” up there….for any of you on this board that don’t believe God exist, just follow what “a simple vessel” did…he didn’t believe God existed at first, so he set out on a journey to PROVE that He didn’t exist!…and found that He indeed DOES!…i mean He said it ALL up there…lol…its really that simple…

    but if i may answer a couple questions again…and again everything your carnal mind can possibly come up with is in that great book b.k.a. The Bible…EVERYTHING….Paul spoke about these UNKNOWN GODS in the book of Corinthians, i believe its in the 2nd book of Corinthians….

    just look thru the 2nd book of Corinthians for text in all caps that saids UNKNOWN GOD…lol…and you’ll see for yourself….i can, but i won’t get into such detail….a simple vessel gave you more than enough proof, in my opinion…as well as “Doug” up there…point’d out some good statements that were clearly ignored….

    and ignorance is usually swift to speak, before thorougly think’n out an action…but a wise man is quick to listen, and slow to speak….be wise my friends…

    as for the bible condoning slavery???…wrong…you’ve got ur facts tangled sir….(to paraphrase) it states that doing work for someone else, one that controls your “time” and your “money” is indeed slavery…and it simply predicted that there will always be slaves for the simple fact that they would “choose” to be….

    there has been 2 systems in this world every since sin entered into it…
    freedom, and slavery….working a J.O.B. (Just Over Broke) is slavery…
    being self-employ’d or an “entreprenuer” is freedom…its really that simple…

    freedom is simply controlling your time and money, and if someone else controls those 2 things, then your really a slave to them, cause “they” are providing for your lifestyle instead of “YOU” doing so….if everyone was self-employ’d this would be a better nation…but anyway…lol…im drifting…

    as far as “religion” goes…that was and is a tool of the devil to keep people confused…hence this entire board we are arguing on….”religion and ignorance” are the only 2 things that can and will keep you from the full story….

    being a Christian is not a religion whatsoever, its truely just believing in Christ…

    as far as all the wrong-doing in the world…people ask God why does He let these things happen?….its amazing how “ignorant” people are…and i don’t mean that in a mean way…but your answer to such a question is in The Bible…the question you should be asking is “how shall i live?”….
    He never said none of these things wouldn’t happen! He infact said that they would!!…someone already stated, John 10:10 – that satan comes to do nothing but steal, kill, and destroy….

    what part of that don’t people understand?…the words are so simple that it will take another human being to help you be confused on it!….

    for the Agnostic….sir you are riding a thin thread…whatever influenced you to believe that God isn’t who He saids He is, ask yourself this one question, are those people in life where you wanna be or end up?….

    one more thing…as far as “emotions” go….Jesus’ capacity for emotions reaches far beyond ours…if we were indeed created in His Image, as a reflection of Him, then use your imagination….

    all of this has already been written anyway….read the end of The Book we win in the end!

    I certainly agree with Pascals Wager to all of those who don’t believe…
    its better to die believing in Christ to find out He wasn’t real, than to die and find out that HE DOES!…what really do you have to lose?…what in Hell do you want?…

    i tell you what….for all you folks that don’t believe that there is a Heaven, or a Hell…do all of us that do believe a favor….PROVE IT!!…

    i’ll conclude with this….cause this is what the root of being a Christian is all about…this is the work that has been bestowed upon all of us that do believe…to “spread the gospel”….to simple talk to folks like yourselves that don’t believe…and get thru whatever part of your mind that is in rejection, to let you know….its ohk…its a free gift….you can’t do anything to earn your salvation, its a simple acceptance…a belief that Jesus was risen, and that He is your Lord and Savior….<—-just say'n those powerful words, and believing them with your heart, will take those blinders you have on you eyes OFF!….

    don't take our words for it….you can do this on your own!…just say this
    to yourself….be as stubborn as you want about it too! lol…

    "God if You are who You say You are, then reveal yourself to me!" PROVE IT…and guess what….HE WILL!!! please be aware, that He uses other humans, people that you "can" see, feel, touch, etc. amongst a host of other ways….

    you don't have to be content with not believing….just ask Him to reveal Himself!…its really that simple…

  27. a friend Says:

    one more thing…i’ll give you guys an exert from one of my poems…

    today many say that “The Bible” contradicts, and it doesn’t make sense…and yes I AGREE….that it doesn’t “make sense”….to a world that thinks realistically, uses natural reasoning, and for those of you who needs a logical explaination for everything…well YES, YOUR RIGHT!…it doesn’t make sense to you in a way…..but it – does – make – faith….

    your not looking for “sense”…your looking, for faith….

    simple put, all your “senses” can be decieved so easily…
    hands are quicker than the “eye”…

    – you can touch something believe it to be one thing and it not be it…
    – as far as taste….have you ever done a Coke vs. Pepsi test?…point proven
    – do i need to even explain “sight?” lol….ohk i’ll give u one example, doesn’t navy blue “look” just like its black til you put them side by side?…even then you can be decieved thru sight that easily…

    – smell?…oh wow…you can be smelling poop and think its perfume…lol…
    – and hearing…i thought i heard a baby crying once, and it was a cat, lol…

    my point has been proven, before these words where ever written…

    so if all your senses can be decieved so easily, why would you have so much ‘FAITH” in them?….

    by definition faith is a firm belief in something for which there is no proof….
    the devil can’t attack u thru faith, because he doesn’t have it!…he can only get to you thru your “senses”….

    take the lid off your thinking people….facts are facts…

    as far as love?….another exert…

    ain’t it hard tah show love, after life has beat you up?…
    ain’t it hard tah keep giving, when yah tank is on empty, when you feel like givin up?…
    trust me, believe me…i know thru first-hand life experience, an…
    i’ve heard and listen’d tah otha stories of men and women…

    and its horrific, when death is chosen over living…
    when evil clinches to yah thoughts…when
    you buy ah lie with yah thoughts…an without realizin,
    there’s ah war bein fought fah your every thought, every decision…
    invisibly between, good and evil, your angels and demons…an

    hmph…i know whatchu thinkin…but tha greatest trick tha devil pulled?…
    its convincin those convinced not tah believe in Jesus…
    convincin those convinced that love is just ah phase,
    ah fad, ah wish, ah feelin that passes, an over-rated experience,
    not tah mention tha “trick” that ah devil…doesn’t exist!….

    but – tha – devil – can’t – convince – you – that – “love” isn’t ah feeling…
    NO!…he can’t convince you that love doesn’t exist!..
    everyone of you has felt this feeling…every single one of you,
    has fallin in love with someone or somethin…

    whether it be, love for ah person, ah job, ah hobbie, ah pet…
    tha love of money, of sex, of drugs, or any material thing that comes next…
    every one of you, has develop’d ah love fah someone or somethin!…

    so if God is Love and Love comes from God, i find it kind of odd,
    to deny His existence, His presence, when so much energy is
    put into convincin those convinced, and even those who believe,
    tha unconvinced, that God is ah myth, that God doesn’t exist…
    or that God is everything except The Father, or The Father of Jesus…
    nah, tha enemy wants you think’n th’e exact opposite…

    and its horrific…when you have ears to hear, and you chose to listen,
    tah deceit, and make decisions that support that poor way of thinkin…
    your “choices” are yours, so why do we give them so freely?…
    why don’t more people seek tha truth of our reason for being?…

  28. I forget what the term for this argument is, but it was formed by C.S Lewis.

    If we look at the new testament, It talks about Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus is their, and anyone who receives him, savior. That he died on the cross, to pay the price of sin, which is death, after living a perfect life. That he didn’t deserve to die, yet he sacrificed himself for us. And the door is open for anyone who wants to go in.

    But one classic argument is, how can we know this is all true? How do we know that its not just a bunch of bogus?

    There are three possibilities:

    A. Jesus was insane, thinking he was the Messiah, unto death, and died insane.

    B. Jesus was lying, pretending to be the Messiah, unto death, and died a liar.

    C. Jesus was who he said he was, unto death, died and rose again as the savior of mankind.

    Now, to assume that Jesus was insane, we have to look at the texts we have. (The gospels, mathew, mark, luke, john) In none of those books, did he display any signs of being insane. Luke was a doctor, and would have probably noticed Jesus acting insane. Many of Jesus’s disciples and apostles were great thinkers and knowledgeable men. would they choose to follow, or even believe an insane man? Granted he may not have had signs of his insanity upfront, but they spent many days and weeks with him. Surely they would have noticed.

    Or, lets even presume that they did know him to be insane, but they chose to stay with him anyways. to what purpose would they then write the gospels, and the new testament, if the crazy man they were being nice to was dead?

    So, we know by the records in the New Testament, that Jesus did not act crazy, and his disciples certainly didn’t notice anything (and they spent all their time with him) So, we must assume, that Jesus Christ was not Insane.

    So then, we move on to the possibility of Jesus lying. Probably the more favorable argument. But we should ask ourselves, to what end? Why would a liar, allow himself to be captured, and killed, for a cause he knew to be fake? The Pharisee’s arrested Jesus, and they tried to find something to accuse him of. They asked him if he was the messiah, and he said yes. They accused him of blasphemy, and sentenced him to death.
    Jesus knew that if he said he was the messiah, it would cost him his life. If he was lying, surely he would not keep up the charade unto death.

    Also, WHY would he lie? a possible reason would be military power. The Jews expected the messiah to be a great military power that would over throw the romans. If Jesus was a liar, and could get crowds of THOUSANDS to appear to hear him speak, how difficult would it be for him to rally an army? So foreseeable was this, that the Pharisee’s told Pilot that Jesus was doing this very thing. But were was his army? When one of his disciples cut the ear of of a roman solider, why did Jesus refuse to run, or fight back? If he was a military power, surely he would have struck back then.

    But no, he had no army, and no ulterior motive to die. and throughout the texts, and examples of his moral character, he would not have lied. So then, Jesus cannot have been a liar.

    This leaves us with the conclusion, that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. The savior of the world. That all people are indeed sinners, and need a savior. That Jesus Christ died on the cross, for our sins, that we may have everlasting life.

    Now, there are other theories, like the bible was just Propaganda. written to control people. Written? no. Early followers of Christianity were persecuted and often murdered. Propaganda usually serves a purpose, to what purpose would it serve to have your deceived followers be eaten by lions, or stoned, or crucified? Used as Propaganda? Yes. Corrupt people can very easily twist the words in the bible to trick people into doing what they want. that is wrong. but that is not why the bible was WRITTEN, nor is it the correct way it should be used.

    I may have misrepresented the argument by C.S lewis, so i encourage you to look it up for yourself. In the end, we cannot PROVE that God exists by ourselves. (but why should we have to, when we can look at the stars, and all of creation? It screams GOD MADE THIS!) Ultimately, its something you have to decide on, by faith. but God can reveal himself, I like “a friend”‘s challenge, to ask God to reveal himself to you. Great idea.

    Good luck to the people reading this.

  29. a friend Says:

    i’ve heard some good things about C.S. Lewis, i believe i need to do some research on him and find out what was on his brain…lol…he had a nifty way of gett’n his point across….

    and after coming to comment on this board back n forth…i’ve realized many things…

    i agree with your statement “someone”….i actually love how you put your post together…lol…but what i’ve come to see is that, this post was made to server a purpose, a purpose that not even the original poster of it could even realize…

    one thing i don’t understand (maybe i may have to go back and re-read your original post sir) is what was your motive for creating this post?…

    recognition? to attempt to “open” a believer’s eyes into believing that Jesus isn’t who He said He is?….i mean, i have to admit, your statements are very bold…your a courageous person to attempt to sum up what many intelligent thinker’s before your time tried and fail’d to do, and will continue to fail to do, cause good always prevails over evil in the end, and knowing the truth will always set you free….

    i mean why speak against the bible in such a way, when all it takes for you to see what many see is to open up the book, seek what you want understanding on, and see for yourself!….i mean who’s influence are you following truely at the end of the day…and i challenge you to decision to trust such people with something so delicate as your “mind”….

    but are these people or person that are influencing you, in life where you want to be?….are they living a life that you want in your future?….is your source of how to live life sufficient enough to last you a life time?….
    do you really think so many people through-out history could be duped into believing in a Man that didn’t exist?….

    i receive thru giving sir, so hear is some truth for you…first i must ask do you at least believe in this statement….”observe the masses and do the opposite?”….if anyone has giving you this type of advice thru your lifetime you should thank them….cause this next statement proves why that phrase is so simple, but powerful at the same time….but there will be more people in the world that don’t make it to Heaven, then there will be that do….

    the “masses” will choose deception…they will choose not to believe and be deciev’d…despite everything that the bible has predict’d is going on in today’s time…people will still choose to simply not believe…they will choose however to walk around blindfolded…they won’t do things like what “a simple vessel” did and set out on a journey to prove that God doesn’t exist…

    no…now you guys that say you don’t believe have not proven that you don’t believe…you have nothing solid to stand on to prove that God never existed…its like you built your “foundation” or argument on a lack there of…or better yet, its like you built your house on sand!….

    i mean no harm, but i really believe that you guys want some guidance,
    you really have a heart and want the right things in your life, but you just
    don’t want this religion non-sense shoved down your throat…
    and if there was ever a time if “I” myself presenting myself in such a manner
    i apologize for that….i have no faith in religion sir…yet i do, do things, “religiously”…like i brush my teeth religiously…lol…my definition of religion that i live by is just doing something consistently….but as far as being a Christian, and believing in Christ?….that I am, thats what I believe, thats what i wiill defend, and that is what I will die and be reborn believing…i’ve read and hear enough words in that great book that its into me, and not the other way around…ever bit of knowledge that i’ve applied from that book has come to pass…

    but fellas i may just be blowing smoke at this point i don’t know…but its been placed on my heart not to give up….God hasn’t given up on you…He knows the non-sense you’ve went thru thus far in an any attempt (if you have) to seek Him….

    but may i conclude with this sense of urgence…

    I urge you, i’ll even display some humility to say, i beg of you….please
    seek Him now while things are still calm…for there WILL come a time when you’ll have to make a decision, and your life WILL depend on it!…

    evil is moving fast, this world is prep’d to go thru the worst mankind has ever seen…and that will be just the beginning…you haven’t seen hell, or hell on earth yet!….again these things are in the book, so please “read”….

    but just try to imagine this….what would earth be like,
    if all the “good” that was in it was gone?…if all the “good” people at heart, just suddenly vanished, as if they were never here?….what type of lifestyles would you see then?….

    you don’t have to trust my words as truth, but i’ll stand on them and say they are….yet i URGE you to find out for yourself!…

  30. Shepard of men Says:

    Well, one thing is for sure that internet is ate up with sin. Would’nt you rather believe and try to live a faithful life and then just die, or be a heathen and spread sin, disease, and sickness to all around you, then go to hell for all eternity. Oh yes Lord God is a loving, and merciful God. Understand though that his love and mercy only extends to his children. Not the children of the flesh that accept the worlds ways and dont try. I’m sad to say that the church in this day in age does not help people that are not enlightened by the holy spirit. Its is hard to just “poof” be a christian. But know this, its not about saying your christian, its about knowing you are not perfect, knowing that you have sinned, and knowing that our Lord God sent his only son, through the holy spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, to die, for us. Yes its hard to live a good life. But the road to damnation is paved in gold for the devil is everything evil and in this world, good things, bad things all evil. The only way to sanctification through the blood of christ is understanding sin. One must first recignize their own faults and sins to draw the line between good,evil and truth. Truth is what one must build through faith and devotion. Someone who does not know about the cross will have their chance. God sends missionaries daily to spread his word. He blesses them with protection and gives others hope in a dying world. But one such as these “athests” or in my opinion just lazy, tv watching, cant get outside, or worst of all ATE up by sin because they dont want to break the chains around their soul. Jesus is the way brothers and sisters. If we were perfect and all go to heaven there would not have been a reason for his death. I love all of you and hope peace comes to you and your families. And if this touched anyone and someone would like to close their eyes and recite this prayer, I promise you will change your life today with the help of Lord God and his son Jesus. Read this then recite

    Lord God I humbley come to you now with my heart open, I come to you in shame for the life i have lived, please lord forgive me for my sins and tresspasses, forgive me for my sins against you for i am foolish and uncaring. Lord come into me and cleanse me, I believe in Jesus, I believe he was cruxified on the cross for me lord thank you lord I love you. Amen

    Now once you do this start looking up on how to live a better life, first start by following the 10 commandments, look them up.

    Second, understand sin, anything you wont want people to know about or you feel shameful about is a sin. God created us in his image, we have a mind, and soul, we must take care of them to be a vassel for the lord. He will us you to change lives if you let him. God bless

  31. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

  32. God is in all of us, God is the very life within us and may be found anywhere. Words are symbols that we have chosen to stand for a multitude of concepts, objects etc. The enormous limitation of words to convey the meaning/describe even simple things can be clearly understood when you imagine how difficult it would be to tell someone who has never tasted an apple; exactly how an apple tastes… …sweet? fruity? tangy? It’s not very accurate is it, and that’s just the flavour of an apple!! How difficult then for God to explain everything to us with mere words then! But God didn’t! Men did that. You find God when you go beyond the words, beyond your runaway thoughts, beyond your ego’s needs. You find God in your heart. Common sense tells us that ‘hell’ is that miserable place we often find ourselves in when we go it alone. But it also tells us that ‘eternal punishment for making the wrong choice in this life’ is the very weak, unloving, small, un-spiritually evolved – human construction that is an attempt to either scare others into believing or to make oneself (ones ego) feel superior. (You’re going to hell, I’m not.) What kind of love is it that gives free will, but free will with only one condition? And if you don’t accept that one condition the alternative is eternal suffering of the highest degree??? Are you people on drugs? I am a parent and I don’t even claim to come close to loving my child as well as God would and yet my love is greater than to ask something like that!! So according to yous, my love is greater than God’s!! ….Or on the other hand God is much much much greater than you could begin to imagine! May you all truly find God’s peace in your hearts. Love to all.

    • “God is much much much greater than you could begin to imagine…”
      Then how do you presume to describe it? If it’s beyond imagination, then it’s indescribable, thus unquantifiable, and external to reality. Your god is self-contradicting.

      “You find God when you go beyond the words, beyond your runaway thoughts, beyond your ego’s needs. You find God in your heart.”
      This is a vacuous and meaningless statement.
      Where is god, in my aorta?
      What is god? Define god.

  33. I used the word ‘heart’ as an expression for that part of you which is not your body or your mind. You will want me to prove that this ‘spirit’ part of you exists but I cannot. But god would be in your aorta too.

    “If it’s beyond imagination, then it’s indescribable, thus unquantifiable,…” That’s exactly what god is!

    “…and external to reality.” before i can say whether god is external to ‘reality’ you need to define what ‘reality’ actually is. If something needs to be proven by human science as we know it to this day or by logic to be included in ‘reality’ then god may not be ‘real’! At this point i hasten to add i am not trying to convince you to believe in god or not, i am just writing about god to the best of my knowledge.

    With regards to the “vacuous and meaningless statement”, i was trying to sum up in a couple of phrases how or when i find you can feel god’s presence. Many people from various backgrounds (religious and non-religious) have written detailed versions of how to ‘know god’ or how to ‘feel god’s presence’ and when you look at them they are saying something similar in a different way…

    …when i say ‘go beyond the words’ i mean that words can only direct us; the word ‘apple’ is not an apple and the word ‘god’ or any long eloquent definition of god is not god and does not really get us anywhere close to the experience of god.

    ….when i say ‘go beyond your runaway thoughts’ i mean that most of us humans go about our daily lives living in an imaginary world of words and pictures. When we speak to our friends/colleagues/children etc we only hear half of what they say because we’re too busy listening to the running commentary/watching the in-house movie, it goes something along the lines of:
    ‘so anyway, when i get out of here i need to do…god, she’s so boring i wish she’d stop waffling on… is that such and such just came in? what does he think he’s wearing? god, you’re a right moaner…oh im so tired, i suppose i look like shit and there’s that person i fancy, i wish she’d shut up so i could speak to him/her but then again, maybe i should wait til ive gone and freshened up a bit…i wonder what time it is?’ but you actually say:
    ‘yes, yes, ….did you?….no? …oh, poor you…yes, ..oh yes, we must do coffee one day…yes…’
    And you’ll find the film keeps running even when youre alone and it gets worse then; inventing scenarios, planning, scheming or at best constantly re-designing the best outcome for your life.
    The mind is a problem solving tool. The mind makes sense of things. The mind cannot know god or another person for that matter. The mind knows facts and figures, the mind judges. The mind knows ABOUT god and about people…he’s tall with curly hair and is good at tennis, she’s 48. They live in Princes Street. I like him. That programme is annoying. When you live solely in your mind with your views and opinions you can’t feel god’s presence just like you cant feel another persons essence. When you learn to disconnect a little from your mind you actually start to truly hear what others say and become truly able to love someone, just as you make space to feel god’s presence.

    Going beyond your ego’s needs is pretty much the same as going beyond your thoughts…your mind is your ego and it needs constant feeding… it can be fed by: being right, winning an argument, being better, being the best, being admired or adored, having something new, feeling pleasure and so forth. There is nothing wrong with any of these things in themselves, but when they are more important than being loving/living from ‘a place of love’ (another vacuous statement i will no doubt have to explain later) the quality of life is so low that even if you are getting everything you wanted you feel like there something missing or that you need/want something else!

    I wanted to write some more stuff about what (i think) i know about god. (ie if im not deluding myself) but i feel like im going on and on and dont know if anybodys that bothered apart from ‘God’ blogger and i actually agree with most of the stuff you’ve writtten about so called god (…a loving god couldnt possibly send anyone to hell, flip im a mum and i dont claim to be anywhere near the best, but i love my child and wouldnt send my child to hell let alone eternal hell even when he’s driving me mad – so what are we saying? I am bigger than god? My love is greater than god’s love? This time i will rely on logic to tell me that a loving god would not have invented a hell in the first place! If you give someone so-called freewill but if they don’t pick the one option you want them to pick they are tortured forever…that’s not my definiton of free-will!!!!….) …only i think god exists and you can live your life with or without an awareness of god’s presence and the more you tap into that spiritual realm the more peaceful you feel regardless of the ups and downs of life and the more you touch the lives of others and heal the world. But if you don’t, no worries when you die. It really is your life and your choice.

    • Dear Jenny you’re not alone but I feel like we are knocking on a door which is trying to waste the time of Christians once you’ve told them the truth we have to have faith that God will do the rest so pray for them that they may find Him in their lives which is obviously filled only with the bad from all the comments that they have posted against God someone needs to tell them to read Job he too was a seriously angry dude which lost everything and blamed God. This demon will destroy you if you let it.

      • Ha, “the truth”. Prove to me that your god is real, let alone that there is any “truth” to these dubious claims.

        You further perpetuate your ignorance with your reference to Job. Clearly you have not read the story. It supposes that Job was a supremely faithful and pious man, always praising god and worshiping him.

        God supposedly questioned Job’s genuine admiration (and why wouldn’t he? he’d never given anyone a good reason to believe in him before). So to “test his faith”, god systematically ruined Job’s life. Job did not lose “everything and blamed God”. “God” deliberately massacred his whole family, infected him with horrible diseases, destroyed his crops, killed his livestock etc. Of course he blamed god, god did that shit on purpose, because he was malevolent, bored, and sadistic.

        I once again reiterate that your “god” is a tyrant and a sadist. What sort of morals can you possibly derive from a being that tests someone’s faith by ruining a devout follower’s life?

        Your god is contradictory.

      • To lowercase god. I have already asked you where your so called reality comes from. With no answer. You make wild affirmations with absolutely no backing, and, I won’t entertain foolishness. I have a Bible and all of creation to back me up let alone a God who loves me for I am a child of God and the devil that you worship with your agnostic/atheistic resolution has been defeated. As far as Job is concerned Satan attempts to break Job to proove to God that Job is not faithfull but Job never curses God and God ultimately restores Job with more than he had before. It was not God’s doing but Satan’s. Job’s faith got him through, you have no faith you have no chance against Satan. My God does not need a stamp of approval from you. God is free.

        God is Almighty.

      • Um, where does my so called reality come from? I don’t understand your question.

        I make wild affirmations with absolutely no backing? Like what, using reason, logic and sense to analyze the natural world and interpret scientific data? How is that a wild affirmation?

        You claim to have a bible to back you up…but there is no proof in the bible. There is nothing scientific about it. It’s just hearsay, speculation and conjecture. The bible is NOT the word of god, it is the words of men. How can you possibly be so ignorant as to say that I’m making wild affirmations, when you support the bible’s?

        And, uh, no. I don’t worship the devil. I don’t believe in the devil. The devil doesn’t exist. There is no evidence for the devil. Like there is no evidence for god.

        I never asked for your god’s approval. I reject your god’s existence.

        Once again, any “god” that punished people on an infinite time scale for finite transgressions is a tyrant, and not benevolent, as you claim him to be. God is not almighty. He is a 4 year-old boy burning ants with a magnifying glass.

        Ask yourself how you can believe in god without evidence. Do you believe in leprechauns? How can you say that leprechauns aren’t gods? Or unicorns? Or the Loch Ness Monster? There is just as much evidence for these aforementioned creatures as for your supposed god.

        Wake up and smell reality. It is everything around us. It is nature. It is what our senses can perceive. It is the real world. Claims to the supernatural explain nothing about our existence, they merely raise more questions and assert speculation as fact.

      • (Wake up and smell reality. It is everything around us. It is nature. It is what our senses can perceive. It is the real world.) An where did this world come into existence. Nature where did that come from and why is it ordered.

        (You claim to have a bible to back you up…but there is no proof in the bible. There is nothing scientific about it. It’s just hearsay, speculation and conjecture. The bible is NOT the word of god, it is the words of men. How can you possibly be so ignorant as to say that I’m making wild affirmations, when you support the bible’s?) By your account then all historical books are hearsay and not true. Wild affirmation 1.

        (And, uh, no. I don’t worship the devil. I don’t believe in the devil. The devil doesn’t exist. There is no evidence for the devil. Like there is no evidence for god.) ah you’ve become a positive atheist! You’re fooling only yourself. and suppose there is a devil then you would be worshipping him.

        Failed to read (I never asked for your god’s approval. I reject your god’s existence.) I said (My God does not need a stamp of approval from you) your mind is completely clouded and you read what you want. Wild affirmation 2.

        (Once again, any “god” that punished people on an infinite time scale for finite transgressions is a tyrant, and not benevolent, as you claim him to be. God is not almighty. He is a 4 year-old boy burning ants with a magnifying glass.) You are unequipped to understand God or make such an affirmation of God’s intentions, he did not punish his people more than they brought this on themselves by turning away from God, and, you don’t know God in the slightest. You insult God and the people who believe in Him and you lack the smallest bit of common decency. BTW Wild affirmation 3.

        Am I making my point clear yet. Stop listening to your own thoughts and hear what your being told if not by me (cause I know you just want to show me up) by others which have loved their fellow man enough to care about the condition of their heart/soul. Don’t you get it the only reason we are posting here is because we care enough to say something and not allow you to take others down the path of darkness. Look at your fellow free thinkers they have diminished. God doesn’t like other gods trying to steal his thunder.

      • You are a liar this is the quote.

        I’m not an atheist and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.

        Further Spinosa’s God is qusetionable as we don’t know what period of Spinosa’s life Einstein was refering too.

        you are truly confused.

        But

        God is Almighty.

  34. Its a no brainer, we are all made up of gods energy, everything is energy. Research e=mc2, think on a smaller scale not on a physically large scale. Einsteins theory states all things are made up of energy, an unimaginable amount of almost non existent atoms all with complete instructions(DNA) on how to assemble to form everything that is in our entire universe including all life and non life forms. This IS what things are made of. These are gods building blocks. It is my belief god created all in an instant during the big bang, and had the know how and the forethought to provide all that would be needed to sustain his world, i am not sure however if God can intervene with his creation, but has left us to our free will to learn lessons necessary to our survival. It is late and i have more on this but am very tired, i encourage comments on my post. I have spent many hours researching looking for scientific proof of gods existence, and have found many amazing things to ponder.

    • It’s sadly ironic that you cite Einstein as your proof of god, with your half appeal-to-authority and half ignorance.

      E=MC2 is a mathematical equation, Energy = Mass multiplied by the Speed of Light squared.

      It has absolutely nothing to do with DNA. There was nothing even close to resembling DNA for billions of years after the Big Bang.

      “It is my belief god created all…” show me the evidence to substantiate your “belief”. You work from an a priori assumption, citing no evidence to back up your claim.

      I can just as easily say His Holiness The Great Unicornarius (peace be upon him) was the holy messenger of Leprechaunus, the all-powerful creator of the cosmos.

      You will not find any current-day “scientific proof of gods (sic) existence” because there isn’t any.

      If, someday, scientists were discover evidence for the existence of an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, omnibenevolent creator of the Universe, then great, let me read the peer-reviewed paper on it.

      But until then, the atheist stance is the correct one. We reject all current claims of any gods or the supernatural, because there is nothing to substantiate them.

      The burden of proof is on the believer. You are making a positive claim. You need positive evidence. Not, “well, I can’t think of how else it happened…god must have done it.”

      The Universe is far more beautiful and magnificent on its own – we don’t need a Penn and Teller of the Sky to explain its state: we have science and rational thought.

  35. I would like to say you athiests/agnostics/satanists are a bunch of idiots but that would be throwing pearls to pigs wouldn’t it. You’re lucky God loves you, no matter how angry you are or how much you want him not to exist. I hope and pray you’ll find your way back to Him soon. You lost your dad so what’s new the circle of life on earth has been around since the creation of it, man has helped this circle along quite nicely don’t blame God (heaven on earth is a myth or a Belinda Carlisle song). He gives you eternal life through the Son, if you believe you’ll have the reward “that’s so difficult” yet we worry about earthly rubbish. You want God to take away the pain and suffering but you wont trust Him. Don’t ask Him for help and then when you don’t like the answer try turning other people against Him. You have no idea of why humans exist and can think for themselves and know what is good and what is bad etc.. etc.. but rather you just dismiss God and don’t want to think about Him, and, you blaspheme against Him. I suppose the whole Holy Bible is just a story written over a weekend and tied together by some super human dude hey? I really don’t like this blog, it looks like you’re just trying to get a rise from cheesing off christians. What you are definitely doing though is sinning against God I pray that he doesn’t give you what you wish for “righteousness” for you would surely burn eternally.

    Man I get so angry with foolishness, GOD LOVES YOU, he wants to share in your life he wants to take away the pain you feel, he wants to help you through the craziness of this world, just let Him what does it cost you what has he ever asked of anyone love for one another to help each other, not to be greedy etc.. He knows it’s impossible to do everything right He knows temptation He’s just asking you to let Him help you and He will.

    God is Almighty.

    • Hah, your line of reasoning is a joke, and it’s particularly ironic that you claim myself and fellow free-thinkers to be a “bunch of idiots”.

      Yes, we are idiotic for staying within the realm of reality and only accepting that which is falsifiable and testable in *gasp* reality.

      And no, I don’t think ” the whole Holy Bible is just a story written over a weekend and tied together by some super human dude”. Quite the contrary, it took hundreds of years to compile the bible, both old and new testaments. It had dozens of authors, contributors, and editors. Since you’re going to go ahead and presume my ignorance of the bible, I’ll repay you in kind, and expect that you know nothing about it either. I have a surprise for you: the bible wasn’t written in English. It has been translated, truncated, re-translated, edited, expanded, edited, and translated again across the centuries, usually for political purposes, not religious ones.

      And no, I’m not trying to cheese off Christians in particular. I have just as much contempt for the ignorance of Christian zealots as I do for Jewish and Muslim ones.

      You keep claiming “GOD LOVES” me, and he’s “just asking you to let him help you and he will”. Ok, so I have a choice in the matter right? But apparently I don’t have a choice, since he already offered me “eternal life through the Son” and get a subsequent award for believing that. Hmm, so I don’t have a choice. He’s already made the choice for me. Accept the claim, or be damned for eternity. Sounds more like blackmail to me.

      Further, it’s once again laughable that you call me an idiot, when you believe the following to be dogmatic: God created man in his image, but then damned him for exercising his “god-given” traits of curiosity and skepticism. Man was then subsequently fucked for eternity. So God knew Adam would use his sense and reason, but let him do it anyway. Then, instead of teaching man the error of his ways, or helping him along in his struggle for survival on earth, he sends himself down from heaven to be tortured and brutally murdered as a sacrifice TO himself. Then he dies and is resurrected into heaven, which doesn’t really make sense, since he already was god to begin with, and couldn’t actually die. So he was himself, his own son, his own father, and apparently really confused, since he needed to sacrifice himself to himself.

      Yeah, sure, that sounds reasonable and rational.

      And yes, I’ll “blaspheme” against him all I like. That’s another story altogether, the very notion of “blasphemy”. Is God too much of a pussy to punish me himself for using his name in vain? Why does he need lowly humans to do it for him?

      Oh, and there’s the issue of miracles. But I’ve already made your brain hurt enough for today…

      • What line of reasoning did I mention which was so funny? reality? where did your so called reality come from? I have not punished you, you punish yourself. Remember free will as you put it (you’ll “blaspheme” all you want). Don’t like the truth then, don’t like hearing someone loves you, and has given you freedom to choose? Hate cannot exist when confronted by love. So atheists, agnostics, satanists are free thinkers LOL!! you compare yourselves to other atheists, agnostics, satanists and you follow their beliefs. As far as you are concerned you seem to be drawing conclusions all over the place. Trying to make yourself more correct. Keep it up you’ll surely make it in this world.

      • BTW just because your nicname is god doesn’t make you the One true God.

    • Ok, dude, really, I’m done with you.

      I’m sick of your strawmen, false dichotomies and positive assertions without evidence.

      “God is Almighty.” Thank you. I try.

      Please don’t talk to me anymore. You have failed at every conceivable juncture to back up any of your claims with evidence. You either lack the fundamental capacity for rational thought or you’ve deliberately prostituted yourself to the perpetuation of vague half-truths and unsubstantiated claims – or you’re a troll.

      Either way, I’m finished “arguing” with you. I could have had a more stimulating debate with a toaster.

  36. Luis Sanchez Says:

    read carefully.
    Ok… Think about this.
    God gave us free will. If he didn’t then he’d be better off making machines.
    If I were a loving God, and wanted you to love me, I wouldn’t force you to love me. Because if I did, then I really wouldn’t feel loved. So in order for you to truly love me, I must apply free will (which would be your choice).
    Earth has Laws… that lead to consequences if they are not followed,
    (such as running a Red light).
    God… also has Laws.
    So if I run a Red light, then I am not quite ready to obey Laws.
    Meaning in… God’s Laws; which would apply in Heaven.
    God’s Angels do Gods will because they love him. Not because he forces them. If God forced Angels to do his will, then Satan wouldn’t be able to apply for a Job at Hell Corporation
    So if God applied free will and decision making in his creation (Us).
    Then God must have put us on Earth so we can have a chance to decide if we truly love him.
    Adam and Eve made a choice; and it’s not their fault that WE are dying on Earth.
    God knew; that because of his loving gift to us, of free will (choice), we would have a choice to not love him and be disobedient if we wanted to.
    So heaven is not a place where God would put us on if we had the capabilities of being disobedient or dishonest.
    Think about this…Isn’t it wonderful that you have free will. That not even God can tell you what to do.
    But there are consequences.
    God put us here, so that we can prepare for heaven.
    I do not need to see God to to prove his existence.
    If that were the case then the WIND wouldn’t exist.
    You can’t see the WIND, but you can see what it does.
    You can’t see God, but I’m sure he can do something good in your life.

    Let’s say God wasn’t real… but, believing in Him made you a better person, what would you have to lose? Then again, what if God was real and you didn’t even bother to look into it, what would you lose then. It shouldn’t hurt to look into this whole God thing just to make sure… right?

    If there ever is a next time that you come across a Bible, your mind must be Holy (clean and pure), before you read it. If not then you may be blinded by the enemy. The enemy can trick you by using the truth to interpret it in his own Evil ways. I would love to give you a couple of verses to use as examples but,… since your athiest, you might not look into this whole God thing. Then again you really can’t be Athiest because God himself has to be applied in the definition of the word Athiest. Assuming that God doesn’t really exist; then you cannot use the Word GOD in the definition of Athiest.
    Remember… that the only reason why you wrote all of this, is because of GOD.
    And that is something that you cant deny.

    You can call the Bible a fairy tale, or a poem;
    I call it the book of Wisdom.

    • Wow…ok, I don’t even know where to begin.

      Your logic = fail at every conceivable turn.

      First, an omnibenevolent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent god has no reason to require love. That’s called jealousy and arrogance; those are human emotions.

      Second, Adam and Eve is a parable. It’s not a historical account of actual events. It’s a metaphor. Stop taking it literally. There is no such thing as Original Sin.

      Third, you say that god gave us a choice (through free will) to accept or reject him. However, if we don’t produce his desired result, we are therefore punished for eternity. This is not free will. This is existential blackmail. There is no exercise of choice, merely a calculated balancing of preferred results and self preservation. “Do I want to suffer for eternity? Well no, not really. I better hope that god exists and embrace his ‘love’ or I’ll be damned FOREVER!”

      Fourth, your comparison of god with the wind is erroneous and illogical. There is empirical evidence as to the cause and effect of wind. There is a naturalistic, scientific explanation. Alternately, there is nothing like that to suppose that god is likewise real.

      Fifth, “Let’s say God wasn’t real… but, believing in Him made you a better person, what would you have to lose? Then again, what if God was real and you didn’t even bother to look into it, what would you lose then. It shouldn’t hurt to look into this whole God thing just to make sure… right?” This is a synthesis of Pascal’s Wager and just general ignorance. You ask what I would have to lose by believing in god. I in turn ask you, “what do I have to gain?” I can be a good person, not kill, not murder, not steal, not rape, give to charity, and love fellow human beings, without believing in an invisible sky daddy. “What would you lose then”, if I were to reject this claim? Well, you seemingly overlook that a) who is to say that your particular definition of god is the correct one, and it’s not Zeus, Ra, Apollo, Aphrodite, or even Allah and b) isn’t your supposed god omniscient and omnipotent? Wouldn’t he be able to tell if I was just hedging my bets and believing in him “just to make sure”?

      Sixth, your incoherent drivel about “evil” just simply doesn’t make sense. I assume you’re talking about “satan”, and that he can “blind” me and “trick” me. What if god is really satan, and he’s trying to trick me into being good, since good isn’t really good after all, it’s actually evil. And satan is really god, and he wants me to be evil because our conception of evil is actually good and doing good is really doing evil. Did that make sense? No, of course it didn’t. Just like your argument.

      Seventh, and finally, you promote your ignorance and rational retardation with the following, “since your (sic) athiest, you might not look into this whole God thing. Then again you really can’t be Athiest because God himself has to be applied in the definition of the word Athiest. Assuming that God doesn’t really exist; then you cannot use the Word GOD in the definition of Athiest.” Do you believe in unicorns, faeries, leprechauns, count chocula, or gremlins? No? Well you can’t REALLY be anti-leprechaun/faerie/unicorn because leprechaun, faerie and unicorn are in the definition of themselves. Assuming that they don’t really exist, then you cannot use those words to distinguish their lack of existence. LOGIC FAIL.

      There are several definitions of atheist, but one of them is “rejection of claims to the supernatural” or other god claims. You are a theist, one who purports a particular definition of god and claims its existence. I REJECT YOUR DEFINITION OF GOD. THAT MAKES YOU A THEIST (WITH BELIEF) AND ME ATHEIST (WITHOUT BELIEF). This is really not a complicated concept.

      But considering your failed attempts at logic and reason, I highly doubt you’ll be able to comprehend even my simplified definition of atheism.

      You call the bible a book of wisdom? It has just as much validity and wisdom as The Lord of the Rings, The Iliad, or Beowulf. If anything, they have more validity, since we can substantiate through contemporary evidence their particular authors and their translations through the ages. Your bible, however, was written by many authors, translated, truncated, expanded, edited, retranslated, edited, and translated again over the ages – for political reasons, not religious ones.

      There is no proof that your god exists. Therefore my rejection of your definition of god is logically and reasonably sound.

      Read carefully. Think about this.

  37. Many valid points, some of which I have thought of myself (god having no reason to require love…jealousy, arrogance..those are human emotions) others i will add to my collection! However, im not an atheist or an agnostic! But neither do I follow a religion.
    I was ‘brought up a christian’. i became a fundamental christian during my late teens but it was when i fully took christianity on that the doubts started. I was told, and gladly believed, that this was an attack from the devil. But i am a very genuine person and i it was a downhill struggle with my intelligence and my nature and it ended up with me closing myself spiritually. I eventually called myself an atheist and refused to discuss anything even remotely related to supernatural. (partly in fear that i might be wrong and it was Jesus all along so better not go down any of those other spiritual paths that could be the devil, partly because i felt everybody was trying to pull the wool over my eyes and i just wanted to get on with life) Anyway its a very long and boring story and i may be completely deluded but i just want to say that everyone ive read on this blog (i havent read them all though) seems to fit clearly into one camp or the other but not me!
    I feel i know god more than ever and yet the one who writes the most sense or the one whose blogs i agree with most is the one previous!( ‘God’)
    I still occasionally go to church (they often speak sense and genuinely mean well when they are not focusing on ‘sin’ all the time) and i have a few christian friends, but my mum despairs of me (and im sure my christian friends secretly do) because i accept it all except the cruxes of christianity! that is that jesus alone was god in a human form (if he was then we all are.) that jesus was born of a virgin, because if he was, for me, this takes away from the fact that he was supposed to be a man like us…then why he did he have to be different? i thought sex and marriage were supposed to be sacred and special gifts from god, so why couldnt god’s so called son be born in this sacred special way? if not he was just an alien, not a human like us so im not listening when you tell me he was a human just like us. And that jesus died for our sins. It doesnt make sense, or if jesus did die for our sins because of gods love for us then that is it! We dont even have to believe in him! If god is really all loving and all powerful, that is easy for god. Even an imperfect mother like me can still love her child with all her heart when he says “i hate you and wish i had another mummy” how much more can an ALL LOVING god completely forgive all his children even if they spit on ‘him’ and each other and deny ‘him’ and say ‘he’ doesnt exist? ‘He’ actually wouldnt give a shit! ‘He’ is god – god needs NOTHING from us! Have you noticed that humans who havent truly felt at peace find they need from other humans what they say god needs from us…adoration, praise, ‘love’…NEEDY INSECURE humans, not humans at peace with themselves and the universe and DEFINITELY NOT GOD! …fearful humans portray god with the traits of – wait for it! – fearful humans!!…JEALOUS, ANGRY, WRATHFUL, NEEDY, OFFERING CONDITIONAL LOVE! Only a small human mind cannot bear the thought that we really all are equal in death. Only the same pathetic human concept of superiority that is the basis for all forms of discrimination (race, sex, religion etc) can truly believe that “I am going to heaven but you are going to hell”..
    ..But my concept of god isnt even of this ‘god the father’ that christians and others believe. In my opinion any truth that there is in the bible has been written many times before and since and it is just the stuff of wisdom and philosophy about the way life is and the way humans are and how we can live more peaceful, more loving and more meaningful lives. In my opinion the stuff about what we need to do to please god has been added for (as ‘God’ says) political reasons, not spiritual reasons…for controlling the masses by fear…I can’t believe it’s still working!!!
    My concept of god is something i cant put into words because it cant be put into words! (read what i wrote last week about the limitation of words) I could kind of write a very vague parallel of the closest i could come to describing it but it would probably sound tacky and the believers will call me an apostate and ‘God’ will require proof but i am not frightened of the christians, the so called devil and definitely not god, and i don’t feel the need to convert any atheists (many of them live in what i call god’s prescence they just dont call it that) and i feel (beneath the ups and downs of every day life) completely peaceful and im not trying to make anyone agree with me but i do wish absolutely everyone (god’s?) peace also.

    • I just want to mention right now that the following is not sarcastic. Someone might think so because of my usual tone on my blog and responding to the comments:

      Wow, Jenny, thank you for your very thoughtful, coherent, intelligent, and meaningful contribution. Your relative objectivity (despite not affirming you’re an atheist (which I still sort of think you are)) is an oasis in a desert of self-righteousness and feigned gnosticism.

      I understand better now what you mean by your “concept of god is something i can’t put into words…”etc.

      Normally I would dismiss such a statement, but you counterbalance it with firm acknowledgement of the many flaws and fallacies of purported “knowledge” common to theists’ rhetoric.

      From what I can gather by your posts, you sound like you subscribe to Pantheism, or the notion that “god is everything, everywhere, everyone, in all the past, present and future” etc.

      However, depending on one’s preferred definition, you really are, by most accounts, an atheist.

      I don’t want to spend too much time on this, because it’s readily accessible information for anyone who is open to the notion that theism is fundamentally flawed, but there are two main types of atheism.

      The first is gnostic atheism (also called strong atheism or positive atheism). This is a positive claim, asserting knowledge, that “God does not exist”, or “I know God does not exist”. Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins fall into this category, and despite my admiration for the majority of work, I fear I cannot subscribe to their extreme stance on the existence of god. I fall into the second category:

      Agnostic atheism (also called weak atheism or negative atheism). This is a negative claim, not asserting knowledge; rather, it is a rejection of other claims to knowledge, i.e. “I do not know if god exists”, or, more specifically, “I do not know (or really, reject) all claims to the knowledge of god’s existence”.

      I consider myself an agnostic atheist, because asserting positive knowledge that god doesn’t exist is arrogant and does not rely on reason, since there is no way to prove a negative (that god doesn’t exist). Rather, I merely reject all claims to the existence of god, specifically the Abrahamic claims i.e. Yahweh (Judaism), Jehovah (Christianity), and Allah (Islam).

      If we are to accept these generalized categories of atheism, then you, my dear Jenny, are a fellow agnostic atheist.

      Welcome to the club.

      EDIT: I also want to add that the reason I’m not a “strong” atheist is because claiming absolute knowledge about the nonexistence of god is unscientific. I’m sure there are very extreme atheists who disagree with me, so I guess I’m somewhat of a moderate atheist 🙂

      I’d also like to note that I’m not closed off to the idea of god being real. This is why I consider myself to be more enlightened than stubborn theists, because I am OPEN to the idea of furthering my knowledge and acceptance of new information as we advance as a species. If there were ever to be future falsifiable, scientific, provable claims to god’s existence, then shit, HOOK ME UP! That would be really cool if god actually exists, I’d love to chat with him sometime.

      But until there is actual proof, not unsubstantiated claims from personal experience, or appeals to ignorance, or appeals to authority, or appeals from special pleading etc., I’m going to stick with my negative atheism and reject all current claims.

      I’m still pretty doubtful, though, because if God had any sense of compassion or rationality, he wouldn’t have allowed such a clusterfuck of competing dogmas to evolve into the bloodbath that we call human history.

  38. Just quickly re-read what i wrote there and realised i didnt explain how i ended up not being an atheist after four years of avoiding anything remotely spiritual or faith related, even alternative medicine… that’s the bit thats the long boring story, because it was a slow process of over ten years that started with a random conversation. I dont think the details are important.

  39. 1) God doesn’t require your love; he wants your love.
    Just like how I don’t require a Mercedes Benz, but I want one.
    If God required your love, he’d be begging you for it.
    God is jealous because he loves you, but he won’t permit you in heaven if you deny him.
    If you found God to be real, then you wouldn’t blame his arrogance for creating you.
    And having emotions for humans can only be God’s reason to why you’re here.
    2) Adam & Eve is a story about how there is an enemy out there, who wants to destroy your way of living. There is no need to take the Bible literally in order to acquire wisdom from it.
    3) This is not Black Mail. It’s God’s rules, God’s house, and if you don’t like it then you can go to hell. That’s what God is telling you. God doesn’t need you; you need God.
    4) If God is the creator, then who created God?
    If the universe created us, then who created the universe?
    What caused the big bang to go bang?
    What came first the chicken or the egg?
    We know everything about ourselves, except what makes us tick.
    This is the song that doesn’t end. Yes it goes on, and on my friend; Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they’ll continue singing forever just because;
    This is the song that doesn’t end. Yes it goes on, and on my friend.………………
    The science of a self-creating universe is just as good of a claim, as my God; and you can’t prove any of it. You can’t use science to prove God’s existence, because he is beyond the reasoning of man’s understanding, and our poor science.
    5) Eternal life is what you Gain.
    6) When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. You know the difference. If your mind is clean and pure (Holy), then you should be able to tell the difference between Satan, and God if either were trying to trick you. Your negative (Atheist) thinking blinds you. Clean and, pure are positives. Try sticking with that idea. It’s much better; Trust me. You can call me mentally sick. But I’m not physically sick; and if I were, I would still believe in God. If you become physically very sick, and they tell you that there is no possible way to save you from dying; your only hope will be God; whether you think he’s real, or not. There is no other choice when it comes to death, because you’re sentenced to death here on earth anyway. And one day When you’re dying (just like I will, on earth), are you going to be thinking, “Oh my God, Oh my God”, or are you going to be wondering,…”humm, I wonder what they are giving on TV right now?
    7) You can say God doesn’t exist all you want, but if there weren’t a God, then you would have no reason to be Atheist. But then again the only reason that you are Atheist is because of God. You can’t define yourself as a non-believer with this word you use, because it contradicts itself.
    8) Your science books get edited over and over again because of stupid mistakes, such as (oh, there are 6 planets,…. no wait there are 9 planet,…oops, by the way Pluto is not a planet. The earth is not the center of the universe, and we forgot to tell you that the world is not really flat.
    At least the Bible has less embarrassing reasons for being edited.
    Are these new facts of now?
    Or were these old disproved facts, accurate Facts of then?
    Tricky isn’t it?

    • “This is not Black Mail. It’s God’s rules, God’s house, and if you don’t like it then you can go to hell. That’s what God is telling you. God doesn’t need you; you need God.”

      Forgive my crassness, but your god can suck my cock. I’d rather reign in hell than serve your totalitarian dictator.

      “God is jealous because he loves you, but he won’t permit you in heaven if you deny him.”

      This just simply doesn’t make any sense. It defies logic and reason.

      “You can say God doesn’t exist all you want, but if there weren’t a God, then you would have no reason to be Atheist. But then again the only reason that you are Atheist is because of God. You can’t define yourself as a non-believer with this word you use, because it contradicts itself.”

      Uh…huh? Seriously, dude. Stay in school. Learn how to form coherent arguments…this is just sad. You’re simply stating a truism, while arguing nothing.

      “Your science books get edited over and over again because of stupid mistakes, such as (oh, there are 6 planets,…. no wait there are 9 planet,…oops, by the way Pluto is not a planet. The earth is not the center of the universe, and we forgot to tell you that the world is not really flat.”

      You’re a joke. You’re a laughing stock. Anyone with any rational mind can see that. “Stupid mistakes”…really? Have you ever heard of telescopes? Satellites? Space probes? Guess what…when we had the scientific instruments to observe six planets, we observed six planets. When we advanced and had the scientific instruments to observe seven planets, we observed seven planets. When we had the scientific instruments to observe nine planets, we observed nine planets. If you were even remotely educated on the subject, you’d know that the retraction of Pluto as a planet is merely a matter of semantics, due to its size. It has been reclassified as a dwarf planet. It’s not like it doesn’t exist, you fool.

      “The earth is not the center of the universe, and we forgot to tell you that the world is not really flat.” Muppet. Muppet, muppet, muppet. The ancient Greeks first suggested that the earth was flat and was not the centre of the solar system. It was RELIGION that suppressed this information. Ever heard of Galileo? Copernicus? Socrates? Plato? I didn’t think so.

      “The science of a self-creating universe is just as good of a claim, as my God; and you can’t prove any of it.”

      Wow, congratulations, you just brought up the same old tired argument of infinite regress. Further, you also demonstrate a fundamental ignorance in cosmology and the Big Bang Theory. There was no “self-creating universe”. Again, dude, stay in school.

      “You can’t use science to prove God’s existence.” Holy shit, this is the FIRST sensible thing you’ve said, and I COMPLETELY agree with you. Firstly, science doesn’t attempt to explain god’s existence. Second, since the definition of god is supernatural, i.e. not within nature, then it is by definition IMPOSSIBLE for science to prove god’s existence. You’re absolutely right. However, sadly, you don’t see the irony. Science, the scientific process, peer review etc. is the best thing we have right now, and it works pretty well. It’s let us be enlightened by atomic theory, germ theory, genetic theory, evolutionary theory, special relativity, general relativity, quantum theory, string theory etc. etc. etc.

      YOUR GOD OFFERS NONE OF THIS. Your bible contributes nothing to science. It is exclusive of science. It contradicts science. Yet science is what gives us all the luxuries of modern society; the very luxuries you enjoy daily. Yet you reject these luxuries’ nature?

      You are the global village idiot, my friend. Please, please, please, I implore you, get an education, read about these aforementioned theories and the topics which you argue from ignorance. You’ll thank me one day.

      Or you can just sit there and wait for god to enlighten you.

  40. Well yes if you put it that way you could call me an atheist then, a weak or agnostic atheist. At first i thought my concept sounded more like the pantheism you mentioned though when i looked that up it still wasnt quite how i’d define god, but it came close. God being present at all times and in all places, the space between that connects us to every other, something that is part of us and yet at the same time greater(?) than us. Look, to be honest with you, i love talking about and discussing god and also my ideas of how humans could possibly begin to undo the muck we find ourselves in due to our ‘godless’ (i.e. ego/mind dominated) attempts at order/civilisation… but i also happen to think that (and at first this may seem like a cop-out, but this is genuinely a part of the way i view god) even the most intelligent and reasonable discussion is ultimately in vain because awareness of god is something that cannot be comprehended by the mind…
    …now i have said at least twice before: – ‘if im not deluded/not deluding myself’ because i have a very active and inquiring mind and i find it hard to ‘practise what i preach’ as it were (not living in my mind so much) and during periods when i havent had time out from my brain i do wonder if perhaps the peace ive felt is just the relief of not feeling guilty anymore or even just some kind of Jenny-personal imbalance! (feeling a bit like it at the mo from so much reading, looking up and thinking about god or not, last few days, on the internet, books, having little discussions with myself…aargh! Time out!)…so again, we’re similar in the sense that i’m not closed either- however to the idea that god might NOT exist.
    As for a rational, compassionate god not allowing the disaster that has unfolded in the world, i know what youre saying… sometimes when i think about the physical and mental torture that humans have inflicted on other humans and animals i cant bear it and despite being lucky enough to have not suffered in this way i think to myself ‘i don’t know if ANYTHING anything however great or wonderful that may eventually come about would be worth the suffering thats already happening and is happening now, i really dont. But then again, most humans know so little of joy and peace and true love(which is not romantic love!!); if we could live more from these states im sure we may feel it was worth it. Again i mention the limitation of words, but to try to convey joy and peace let me stress that: pleasure, contentment, fulfilment and satisfaction (the average human’s highest strivings) are shallow nothings to abiding joy, love and peace.

  41. Just re-reading again and spotted a wee mistake again, meant to say about ‘the suffering that’s already happenED and is happening now’, NOT ‘that’s already happenING and is happening now’! Sorry!

  42. “Where did this world come into existence. Nature where did that come from and why is it ordered.”

    We have something called science to interpret (to the best of our current abilities) evidence.

    We have a scientific theory based on inference that the Big Bang was the start of the Universe. I know you’re immediately going to say “well what came before the Big Bang?” I could just as easily say “what created your god?”. We don’t know the answer as to what sparked the singularity that caused the rapid expansion of space and time. But that is not to say that we won’t in the future. You are creating a false dichotomy by saying it’s one thing or the other. Logic Fail #1.

    “By your account then all historical books are hearsay and not true.”
    No. We have something called contemporaries in history, people throughout time who can observe history and make note. It would be silly to say that Caesar or Galileo or Copernicus didn’t exist, that their existence and humanity was hearsay. We have evidence that they existed. However, conversely, the bible makes outlandish claims as to the divinity of a man, the creation of the Universe, a worldwide flood etc. There are no contemporary claims to corroborate these stories. Your circular logic that “the bible is true because god says so” and “god exists because the bible says so” is unfounded. Logic Fail #2.

    “you’ve become a positive atheist! You’re fooling only yourself. and suppose there is a devil then you would be worshipping him.” No again. I’m not saying “I know god doesn’t exist”. I’m saying, “I reject your claims of god’s existence” since there is no evidence to support it. Your assertion about the devil makes no sense. Suppose there is a Pink Unicorn Hydra Elephant Lightning Monster – you’re worshiping him right now by not acknowledging his existence. Logic Fail #3.

    “he did not punish his people more than they brought this on themselves by turning away from God, and, you don’t know God in the slightest.” Once again, your god is a tyrant and a hypocrite. You claim he is all good and all merciful, yet created man to set himself up to fail and be punished for all eternity? How did people bring it upon themselves? Are you talking about the ridiculous notion of “Original Sin”? That the mythical characters Adam and Eve damned humanity for eternity by eating from the tree of knowledge? Really? And how do YOU presume to “know God in the slightest”? YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING POSITIVE CLAIMS. As Christopher Hitchens said, “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.” You have no foundation for presuming to know god’s intentions yourself. What are we at now? Oh right, Logic Fail #4.

    There is no such thing as a “path of darkness”, this is just your imagination. “Look at your fellow free thinkers they have diminished.” I don’t even know what this sentence means, if you want to call it a sentence.

    “God doesn’t like other gods trying to steal his thunder.” Yet again, I assert that your god is a self-contradiction: no all-perfect being would have the need for petty emotions such as jealousy, anger, and vengeance. Logic fail #5.

    Stay in school, bro. Try reading some books other than the bible. You may actually learn something.

  43. Your books have been proved to be way off, time after time, not only in science, but also history has been unreliable in the form of books. You make sure that you keep correcting your unreliable sources of education. Or better yet…keep correcting your logic, cause it seems to be failing.
    You lead me to believe that even you need correction. And that is what good old God is here for. Logically you fail to qualify logic fail #1

    You use Gods non-existence as an excuse, for your wicked ways. Because you know that if you accept God, then you would have to live a life of good God rules.
    You’re simply playing reverse psychology with the very fact that; some attempt so aggressive to disprove his existence is in fact an argument for his existence. The Bible exists; and claims God to be true. It’s evidence in writing, which is backed up by millions, including myself; leading you’re 2nd and 3rd Logical explanation to fail at qualifying failure. His mercy is why your still here. So that; you can get a break from your eternal punishment. These are God’s intentions.
    If God were real you’d probably have a psychological battle, for him not doing anything about your father’s illness.
    Your probably mad at God, and want settle the score by refusing him.
    People like to do wicked and evil things in the dark, what a sad chosen path, (“path of darkness”). And then deny God, because they think it’s the only logic that will defend, and excuse their negative behavior.
    After I die, I hope that there is a path, which will allow me to soar into new heights. This is why I trust God, no matter how ridiculous, or unreasonable he may seem or, sound; that’s God’s promise, and my faith trusts that he won’t break it.
    (And I don’t have to be religious to be saved.) Without God, your path is hopeless after you die, because you lead a “path of darkness”.
    You judge God negatively to defend your negative conditions.
    (It’s like if you were caught robbing a bank, and you snitch on your buddy to prove that you’re not completely at fault in you’re wickedness.)
    Your 5th attempt to fail logic is incapable of qualification, which I find amusing because; I don’t consider myself to be Petty. Not only do you mock God, but you also mock yourself.
    I can presume to know God’s slightest ideas and intentions, because they are written. You cannot reason with God’s jealous anger and, vengeance because he cannot be punished for his actions. Leading your 4th reason to not qualify for logic fail. You lead you own answers, reasons, and comments to fail at Logic. Get a life with God. Being Atheist is feeble.

    • Ok, listen dude. I could go through your reply point by point and dissect and destroy all of your “arguments”, but I’m not going to waste my time.

      When you state such gems as, “Your books have been proved to be way off, time after time, not only in science, but also history has been unreliable in the form of books. You make sure that you keep correcting your unreliable sources of education” and, “The Bible exists; and claims God to be true. It’s evidence in writing, which is backed up by millions, including myself; leading you’re 2nd and 3rd Logical explanation to fail at qualifying failure.”

      Not only do you use circular logic in the 2nd part (the bible is true because god says it’s true, god is real because the bible says so), but in the first part you ignorantly and stupidly dismiss the entire SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

      I generally don’t use such harsh language, but you, sir, ARE A FUCKING MORON.

      You can’t be so callous about dismissing the entire scientific method as “unreliable” and “proved to be way off”, and sit there smugly at your computer, with its liquid crystal display, magnetic hard drive, microprocessor, digital versatile disc reading symphony of science. YOUR ENTIRE LIFE AROUND YOU IS THE FRUIT OF THE LABOUR OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. IT IS WHAT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW. You cannot dismiss outright the scientific method as a manner in determining our origins and conversely drive in your car, talk on your phone, or fly in a plane.

      You’re an idiot, and I’m done with you.

      Being atheist (rejecting your claim of a personal, all-powerful, all-loving god) is perfectly in line with what the scientific evidence reveals. The same scientific evidence that allows this conversation to take place is what I use to make my determinations as to the likelihood of god’s existence; I therefore find it improbable.

      Like I said, you use the same tired, exhausted, old arguments of “you just want to be an atheist so you can sin all day long” and “I can presume to know God’s slightest ideas and intentions, because they are written.”

      Sorry, no.

      The evidence is in, and your “holy book” has been tainted over the centuries by men with political and moral agendas. It’s simply NOT the word of god, and thusly any reasonable person cannot derive anything meaningful from it without taking this into account.

      Science, however, has been (and continues to be through its very nature) through rigorous testing and re-testing, always striving to learn more. Replacing old ideas with new ones, and proving old theories wrong (which you use as a criticism and a means to dismiss it outright) IS THE VERY NATURE OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. Scientists are constantly striving to prove themselves wrong by coming up with new theories to replace older, incomplete models. That’s called falsifiability.

      Please don’t respond anymore. You’ve proven yourself a muppet and irrevocably brainwashed by religious propaganda and rhetoric. You’re a tool.

      And learn the difference between you’re and your.

      You’re = you are (a contraction) e.g. you’re a religiously brainwashed muppet
      Your = possessive (e.g. your religiously brainwashed muppet mind is beyond repair, and I cry for you)

      Goodbye.

  44. People spend more time fixing their computers, rather than using them. I know this because; I make money by repairing their problems.
    Scientific Method and Technology need correction.
    The technology that seems to scientifically impress you is going to be dismissed, and replaced, because it is incompetent. Like that stupid air contaminating vehicle, the privacy exposing telecommunications device, and those flying machines that land on buildings, instead of airports.
    I don’t deny the Scientific Method, or Technology. It’s just simply unreliable in many ways.
    Your idiotic Scientific Methods are going to be as funny as changing the channels with pair of pliers, and becoming the human antenna so that the channel can look good. The Inferior Science, and mediocre Inventions you call SCIENTIFIC METHOD, make mother earth cry, and beg for you to stop.

    And YOU’RE not done with me.

    If your mom tells you to write a postcard to your grandmother, telling her how much she loves her mother. Is it your words, or your mother’s words? Let me answer that for you. I believe that it is your mother’s words, and I’m sure that your grandmother will agree with me.

    Sorry, but yes; God’s word has now been SIMPLIFIED. You can read an older Bible to get an accurate meaning, but you cannot do this with every science book.

    Congratulations you have put God, and the Bible through a rigorous test. And I know that you have learned more, replacing your old Atheist ideas with new Theist ones, because again, you’ve been proven wrong.
    And it’s good to know that you are constantly striving to prove yourself wrong by coming up with more incompetent garbage for this forum.

    If you were right, the idea of God would have been dismissed centuries ago.

    God is using me (like a Muppet), because he refuses to reply to individuals that are that are similar to their harsh language. I hope that I’ve been a tool for you.
    I don’t mean to mock your words, but please don’t bother God anymore. You have only proven to be incapable of destroying my arguments. You’re only right about the part where you waste your time.

    P.S You’re and Your: are corrections made by the inferior spelling grammar software.
    But, to defend the software, I think that it is trying to tell you that I’m 1st, and YOU’RE 2nd and 3rd.
    Goodbye, and God Bless you.

    • I’m not going to waste any more of my energy on you, Luis.

      The fact that you are so blind and ignorant to see that science improves upon itself, never regressing, is absolutely mind-boggling.

      I’d continue demolishing your paltry arguments, but I know you have your religion ear muffs and blinders on.

      I just take solace in the fact that you’ll never be in any position of authority or policy-making, thus being unable to spread your propaganda to the masses (I do, however, pity your children, if you have any).

      You should also note that this is my forum. I moderate it. Every single time you write something, I can either delete it or allow it. I typically delete random trolling and mass scripture quotations; but, for you, I always let your stuff through. I want people to see how ludicrous your line of thinking is. You should feel honoured to be the star muppet on the boards.

      Feel free to keep posting, and I’ll feel free to keep letting you display your ignorance.

  45. This discussion is getting a bit silly now! Anybody feel like discussing the pros and cons of a money free society instead? God’s existence (or lack of) will still be part of the discussion! Only (half) joking, but in seriousness… the internet is such an eye-opener… this blog and some of the stuff ive read (positisve and negative) – in general and searching/looking up stuff related to this blog… some has inspired me but not nearly as much as what has seriously worried me about the way many humans think, the way many humans react to one another at the slightest poke and the way so many are so totally identified with their stance and the need to be right at all costs… we are not moving on to the next level! I think the christians are wrong in their focus, and the pure atheists may be missing out on something… but evryone needs to stand back a bit and see the wood. Everyone’s arguing in a futile manner about who’s right and meanwhile we could’ve been practising compassion or helping someone out – just because we saw a need that we could fulfil so we fulfilled it. (And not because we thought we might have a chance to convert that person or because we thought they might help us out in return one day or for some future reward from god!!) Have a heart! Here’s my religion: don’t convert, just love! If you can’t love, try to be kind. If you can’t be kind, just be civil!! (whilst trying to invisibly send the best wishes you can to the person from your heart). Goodnight 🙂

  46. ps im not anti-christian (read my previous posts) but Luis, ‘god’ is right – your posts are embarrassing to read and would probably have the opposite effect you would want them to have. (Except on the type of christians who would support ANYBODY who said they were for Jesus no matter how ridiculous the argument.)

    How about thinking on my argument… that all of us should be doing our best to improve our ‘loving others’ skills without looking for any kind of reward whatsoever, neither now nor in the future! ..?

    I was a born again christian for a while but ive always been a very genuine and questioning person too. Anyways, when i used to go out on mission others on the team would tell me i was great cos i would approach people easily but that i had a gentle manner… but do you know what? I felt like a farce!…Not because i didnt believe what i was saying (at the time!) but because i felt i should just be being kind to people, not trying to convert them … i felt like a dodgy salesman!

    Years later after years of soul-searching and periods of confusion or denial of my spiritual nature i feel more than ever like i am on a spiritual journey and sometimes i feel i want to tell people all about it! But do you know what? The only people who won’t be put off by what you say are the ones who are on a similar journey to you!!! Yes, lets all pat each others backs for being the same! Ive done it alot and it feels pleasurable – smugness! But its nothing to being told by someone whose views differ from your own that its so relaxing being in your presence!

    I truly believe in my heart of hearts that nobody should be trying to convince anybody of anything because, again it comes down to the unreliable nature of words… words sometimes point to the truth, but words are NOT the truth. How could they be? An ordnance survey map is closer to the reality of the land than a road map, but it is not and never will be the land. But when you genuinely feel god’s peace and you start to actively proceed on your spiritual journey (as opposed to passively cos in my opinion we’re all on a spiritual journey as we are all of the spirit) you lose that need to be right all the time, or that need for others to agree with you (else they’re against you!) all the time. And you find people are drawn to you whether they have things in common with you or not!

    Remember that famous bit in the bible, i dont know the exact words but ive heard it so many times im sure i wont be far wrong… “i can speak the words of angels but if i havent love i am nothing but a sounding gong or a clanging symbol.” (please dont proceed to tell me its from corinthians and then give me the exact verse with the correct wording) For me the loving words come last; when all the loving actions have failed (when trying to help someone who’s asked for help/needs help.) And when you’re not needed to help somebody just go about your daily business keeping as much attention on your own spiritual awareness/progress and let god worry about everyone else’s for you!

  47. pps forget to say “All The Best!”

  48. ..and i meant to say clanging CYMBAL but clanging SYMBOL could almost be called a freudian slip; the way i feel about the fallibility of words!!! Yawn…Nitey nite!

  49. Shepered of men Says:

    Jesus love you yes he does, for the bible tells us so. Always remember this and anything wrong in your live will be better. Even when the world seems to bare down on you always find strength in the lord. Just listen to testimonials from other people. Learn to come up to a stranger who is down on their luck and give them spiritual uplifting by telling them the simplest thing and hello or asking them how they are.

  50. When negative writings about God are displayed.
    It can only make people wonder how ludicrous your line of thinking is.
    Did you actually think that you were going to write all of this, and not offend anyone? Or yet make anyone offend you.
    As for the hypocrite, how could you not be against a Christian by reasoning with an Atheist? You’re a liar; don’t embarrass yourself. Either you are, aren’t, or confused.

    • Yikes, another fail, that first sentence being a fragment.

      “Did you actually think that you were going to write all of this, and not offend anyone? Or yet make anyone offend you.”

      Ha, if your convictions are so strong, then they should be impervious to insult or offense.

      I got an extra lol by your correlation between “negative writings about God” and those consequently being “ludicrous” lines of thinking! You’re a comedic gold mine, Luis, thanks again for spicing up my boards!

      It’s further hilarious watching your sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, arrogance as your condescend Jenny. I’ve gotten the impression that she would probably never harm a fly. You make such bold, irrational assertions as to her being a “liar”, that she’s embarrassing herself, and that she’s “confused”.

      It is so horribly, terrifyingly, shockingly ironic that you cannot see your own hypocrisy up there on your noble, high horse, Luis.

      Keep the comedy coming!

  51. I am genuinely not offended!

    And if we are going to be precise over words, well then maybe you are right, Luis, about me being anti-Christian BUT ( i hasten to add! ) anti the religion, not the people. Hate the sin, love the sinner as yous would say! And only a few bits of it i would call a sin… (the precise meaning of sin to be ‘to miss the point’).

    I regret that what I’ve written I’m almost certain will be found offensive by you again, as i really do not intend to offend but to feel offended is a choice and as I mentioned before I have several friends who are born again christians and I tell them how I feel too. As far as I know they’re not offended… worried about me maybe; they think I’m mistaken; i’m sure they think what i say is blasphemous, but they don’t say that I offend them personally and we have great discussions about all kinds of things and only occasionally about this topic.

    Just one more thing, you have the viewpoint that everything is black and white, you have to as that goes with the religion. The mentality ‘if you’re not for us you’re against us!’ But I don’t have that viewpoint! So you may think im against you, but i dont think im against you! In fact, this is the area where sometimes the conversation gets strained with some my Christian friends… because I think we’re working towards the same thing! (I think christian values are great!) But they don’t think we’re working towards the same thing! They think i can’t be because im not doing it in the name of Jesus. I think this is a real shame and divisive.

    However im not trying to convince you of my argument. Just pointing out that I have a different point of view to you and you think im going to hell for eternity…

    …but I’m a person too! Just like you! I was just a sweet baby once and my mum still loves me to bits and so does my sister and the rest of my family and many dear friends… but no, according to you when i die- straight to hell. Even though i begged and pleaded with god that i just wanted to know the truth. And if i said i believed in Jesus now it would just be a blatant lie because of what i feel in my heart of hearts. Tough! STRAIGHT TO HELL with me! You truly believe that, don’t you. But you believe that it will be my choice even though god can see my heart and will know if i am lying if i just say it to get into heaven. So i don’t really have a choice after all because i JUSTDON’T BELIEVE IT and lying won’t work. So there’s no choice for me. Just hell for me and I’m just a person just lke you.

  52. Your spelling, and grammar class is boring. Learn how to write, “laughing out loud”.

    I’m done discussing your thoughtless, unreasonable, and unreliable education.

    You’re an imbecile, who is only capable of proving himself wrong.

    Your completely mad.
    You even have your name confused.

    • Once again, the irony is palatable as you put a comma after “spelling” and misuse “your” AGAIN near the end of your post.

      It’s funny that you are so diametrically opposed to all the classes which you’re ignorant of/would benefit from the most, such as spelling/grammar, science, philosophy, the meaning of irony, etc.

      “I’m done discussing your thoughtless, unreasonable, and unreliable education.”

      Huh? When did we ever discuss my education? What the hell is a “thoughtless” or “unreasonable” education? I didn’t realize that my education was a being that could take on those characteristics. “Oh that inconsiderate education left the toilet seat up again, why does he need to be so thoughtless? That education sure is being unreasonable, not putting the seat down.” Muppet.

      “You’re an imbecile, who is only capable of proving himself wrong.”

      Like each and every one of your baseless claims, this quotation is asserted without any grounding in reality. You consistently make appeals to ignorance, appeals to authority, appeals to popularity, and special pleading (while I use science as the foundation of my arguments), yet I prove myself wrong? ROFLCOPTERZ. You even manage to fuck up the pronoun. Can’t you even insult properly? LMFAO

      You claim to be done discussing, yet here you are again, posting in my forum, providing the endless lulz for the internet at large.

      Let me grab you a beer while you kick back and put your feet up. Please, stay a while 🙂

  53. Luis, i don’t know if you’ll read this but i just wanted to add that when i wrote the suggestions about what we could ALL do (not just you) and said that your writings had been a bit embarrassing i was actually trying to be kind!

    If we had met and had the conversation in person you would’ve known by my manner that i genuinely wasn’t trying to offend you, but the WRITTEN word, where you can’t FEEL what the person is trying to communicate as well as merely translating the words into meaning (which is what we do when we read- each interpreting the words differently depending on a million different things under the umbrellas of experience and education) is even less reliable than the spoken word. When i re-read the post again i saw how you could’ve thought i was trying to put you down, but i really wasn’t.

    I do like to make a cheeky joke, though! I realise you don’t appreciate the ‘irreverant’ ones but i still don’t mean to offend anybody – provoke a thought maybe. Like i bet few Christians have ever thought that others were going about thinking their most cherised belief (that Jesus is the son of god and nobody goes to the father but by him) is actually a SIN! ..Even though Christians go about thinking that of EVERYONE else’s most cherised beliefs ALL THE TIME! …there’s food for thought.

    Anyway I guess i won’t get to meet you in the afterlife Luis! (irreverant joke, sorry!)

    …but i mean it when i say ‘all the best’ and peace etc to you and your family though.

    • Yeah Jenny, it’s too bad that since we don’t believe in that particular description of a god, we’ll wind up in that particular manifestation of hell, for their particular alleged transgressions.

      Do you maybe want to rent a house together during our stay there?

      Hey Luis, I’ll even extend the first olive branch. Since you’ll be sitting up in heaven (since obviously you’ve chosen the right god and during your finite stay on earth have earned an infinite place in heaven), do you want the first go at me while I’m in hell?

      I’ll tell you what, you can have free reign to torture me for the first 372,000 years that I’m in hell. But I’ll need a break after that for about 4,200 years, just to regain some of my composure. You’re more than welcome to resume after that, though. How about you go on a stint of torturing me for, say, 1,204,560 years? You’ll probably need a vacation after that, though. Why don’t we say a 2,045,045 year reprieve? After you’ve gotten a couple of eons of rest under your belt, I’ll still be waiting for you back in hell. I’m in a particularly generous mood, so how about you take another 12,405,204 years sticking bamboo shoots under my fingernails? I’m sorry, but after that I’m going to have to give someone else a chance to torture me for a few million years. But you should probably have your fill by then.

      Does that schedule work for you, Jenny? I’m pretty flexible.

  54. Haha! Good illustration! 😀

    (just woke up on the sofa and head is fuzzy so off to bed now- Goodnight!)

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